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Post by Ian-Halifax on Aug 1, 2016 12:37:43 GMT -5
If it doesn't have to be a fixed price I would say: 1st - 300k 2nd - 250k 3rd - 200k 4th - 150k 5th - 100k Then when they are no longer eligible for this price they change to the current drafted prices we use. Way too much of a discount on drafted players, either leave it at what it is which is the most realistic or half salary at absolute best. How does it make sense that drafted players get a discount but anyone else in your minors don't. Again, how would this be tracked, seems like a nightmare to receive this discount one year and track who you will have to pay next as opposed to who you wouldn't, it's going to get manager's in cap trouble from one year to the next. Can you please tell me how much a drafted player counts towards an NHL team's cap when he is playing in the AHL? |
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Post by Ian-Halifax on Aug 1, 2016 12:40:45 GMT -5
It makes sense because all of these drafted players have a base salary more than the highest paid minor league player. Many of these players would be on 2 way contracts that would play them much more in the Bigs than in the minors. The other solution would be to raise the cap but then there is no easy way on putting restrictions on which portions of this money can be used for stowing NHL caliber guys in the minors. This solution would target on the players that we want to target for savings, the drafted guys who don't have drafted guys cards yet. So how exactly would it work? McDavid would start at $500k and it'll immediately bounce up to $1 mil when he plays his first game? My vote would be the team has to decide before the season whether they want the player to be able to play in the bigs or not. If not, they're not able to be called up but get the cheaper price. And once they get the higher contract they remain that for the remainder of their ELC. That way, we won't have nearly as much cap hitting when the player is in the minors (it's $0 in the NHL) but they will make the their drafted salary once called up, just like the NHL. Whether they're in bigs or minors, the player would lose a year off their ELC. |
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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 1, 2016 13:24:53 GMT -5
[/quote]Can you please tell me how much a drafted player counts towards an NHL team's cap when he is playing in the AHL? [/quote]
Yes, I can, the same that any player playing in the minors costs towards the teams cap...$0... However the franchise is still paying him his total salary which is what we do, the difference, which I've argued many times, is that we do not have waivers and although we are paying the same number of players that NHL teams do only 23 count toward the actual cap in the NHL as opposed to all of them counting towards our cap. If we could make our cap $73M for 23 players, or salaries would be able to be in line with the NHL's but with no waiver system, we cannot attain this because it would be too easy to hide bad contracts...
Now, since the drafted players are making $1M top salaries, we could say that anyone in the minors making that amount or less doesn't count against the cap and adjust our cap back to $73M but I'm sure this would be a coding issue, or I at least I think it would.
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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 1, 2016 13:30:30 GMT -5
I don't think we can do that because you need to have salaried players available for injuries
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Aug 1, 2016 13:52:31 GMT -5
Way too much of a discount on drafted players, either leave it at what it is which is the most realistic or half salary at absolute best. How does it make sense that drafted players get a discount but anyone else in your minors don't. Again, how would this be tracked, seems like a nightmare to receive this discount one year and track who you will have to pay next as opposed to who you wouldn't, it's going to get manager's in cap trouble from one year to the next. Can you please tell me how much a drafted player counts towards an NHL team's cap when he is playing in the AHL? No, when the cards are generated the players card is derived and either the AHL or NHL scores are used as a basis. If the AHL stats were used to derive a drafted players card for the year his salary would be lowered (halved, set at 200k, whatever) to reflect this. Whether he played or not int he GHL, probably not if his card is based on his AHL stats and therefore isn't going to be very good, makes no nevermind. |
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Post by Ian-Halifax on Aug 1, 2016 13:58:58 GMT -5
There are guys that played 2 NHL games and 60+ AHL games and have "NHL" cards. Does that mean those players aren't eligible for the lower price?
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Aug 1, 2016 14:14:01 GMT -5
2 and 60. Like who? if there NHL card was better giving the nerfing that would be done for a player in that situation then his card would be pretty poor. Again, remember the 99-1 rule.
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Post by Ian-Halifax on Aug 1, 2016 14:45:09 GMT -5
It looks like the only drafted player that was left that was considered an NHL player was Ross Johnston and he played 3 NHL games so would obviously be prospected. But the first guy I clicked on in general that appears like that is Sean Collins. Nothing to do with current drafted players, but would be same concept if he was young enough. 2 NHL games, 75 AHL and has a Pro card.
The thing is even if guys are playing 10-15 NHL games and the rest of the season in the AHL, they're going to have a useless card for our purposes. If they are going to have to be paid full price, I would go back to my point about how we really don't have anywhere close to NHL cap to spend yet we are aiming for similar asking prices. If all my draft picks play a handful of games in the NHL and end up with Pro cards that aren't usable, I have $4 mil on my books right there.
That actually decreases the value of draft picks; if I have a guy like Bjorkstrand on a 1st round pick salary and he's getting paid full $1 mil, and someone has a player that I think will turn out to be just as good as him on a minor league deal, that other player is more valuable. Bjorkstrand got called up for 12 games and is now considered a "pro." Meanwhile the other guy gets called up for 12 games and the team can choose to keep him in the minors for cheap and in addition when he turns out well they can use him for a year at that low price.
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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 1, 2016 15:20:26 GMT -5
I agree with the theory of the arguement, unfortunately we just lobbied to have these players receive consideration to have better cards (Drouin) by lowering the standards of games played. I agree that we can't pay NHL salaries with our current cap configuration but we also can't pay one number for AHL cards and one for NHL cards without waivers. I'm afraid some teams would have no reserve players if this was the case.
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 1, 2016 19:43:19 GMT -5
If we bridge a guy, is he allowed to be traded? I would say no! Does it matter?
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 1, 2016 19:49:09 GMT -5
Put me in the Harry Sinden mold Matt....If we put an RFA D-man with a 61-89 card at 7.1 per season, and we aren't considering this an elite card, where are we going to value 60-105 cards? 9.0? 10? 7.1 is nearly 10% of of our entire payroll spent on one player Matt. We have to field another 44 players into our rosters. The NHL can afford this type of contract because they only have to sign 23-24 more players. If it were a Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin, or a Patrick Kane, I wouldn't have a problem with it. You cant compare NHL salaries to GHL salaries. And, if you want to compare GHL stats to drive GHL salaries, Lindholm shouldn't be asking for 7.1 mil. Again, I am aware that I will get a discount for signing him, bringing his salary down a bit. But it's still a 7.1 that we started at....I on't agree that should be that "particular" players starting point. But, if that's the direction this league is heading, then all I can do is go along. But my feelings are that these type of asking prices are going to severely hamper OUR GM's from making moves in the future. The teams that have been able to draft well, acquire well, and be under the cap...are going to be FORCED to lose their good young talent in their prime.....A la a Halifax. Huge difference between being FORCED to trade and WILLINGLY trading I just ran some figures for Lindholm here at lunch. If my chicken scratch is right and he doesn't get bid up by anyone, you will be signing him for 4.8M for 5 years or 5.25M for 6 years. A bargain if you ask me. Or of course you could bridge him for 2 years at 6.2M if that floats your boat. My whole hang up, is that a player having only one GHL season under his belt, gets to ask for a 7.1 mil price tag, and a only a good to mediocre one at that. I wasnt understanding that the price was being based on his NHL statistic only, rather than some hybrid type formula for both NHL and GHL. Can you understand my point of view? It wasn't like he was sitting on Suffolk's bench because of depth...he was actually not a top 6 defender type card his first two seasons. So, it's hard to accept that steep of a price jump for a non-superstar. Really shocking to be honest. |
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Post by Jon-Seattle on Aug 1, 2016 20:00:56 GMT -5
Then don't pick up the contract. Send him to UFA and try and get him for less. If someone thinks he's worth it then I guess you should have paid up. If this were the NHL it might go to arbitration but we can't effectively simulate that. As of right now he thinks that he is worth that much and won't accept much less.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Aug 1, 2016 20:10:32 GMT -5
I just ran some figures for Lindholm here at lunch. If my chicken scratch is right and he doesn't get bid up by anyone, you will be signing him for 4.8M for 5 years or 5.25M for 6 years. A bargain if you ask me. Or of course you could bridge him for 2 years at 6.2M if that floats your boat. My whole hang up, is that a player having only one GHL season under his belt, gets to ask for a 7.1 mil price tag, and a only a good to mediocre one at that. I wasnt understanding that the price was being based on his NHL statistic only, rather than some hybrid type formula for both NHL and GHL. Can you understand my point of view? It wasn't like he was sitting on Suffolk's bench because of depth...he was actually not a top 6 defender type card his first two seasons. So, it's hard to accept that steep of a price jump for a non-superstar. Really shocking to be honest. No, I cannot understand your point of view. I cannot come to grips with why you keep bringing up the 7.1M price. FFS, I spelled it out for you what he would be getting bridged and un-bridged. Did you see 7.1M in either of those areas? Here are the numbers again: 4.8
5.256.2 bridged. You aint going to bridge him unless you are crazy so just concentrate on the top two numbers and notice the complete and utter abcense of anything that resembles 7.1. |
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 1, 2016 20:12:58 GMT -5
I already succumbed to the whole idea Jonny boy...I'm just answering Glenn.
Obviously you all are good with paying 7 million salaries to guys with only one season worth of ghl play. Otherwise, someone would have said so by now. I'm the only one, who isn't cool with that. But, I'll be ok. But, I will say I told you so...when that time comes.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Aug 1, 2016 20:22:48 GMT -5
I already succumbed to the whole idea Jonny boy...I'm just answering Glenn. Obviously you all are good with paying 7 million salaries to guys with only one season worth of ghl play. Otherwise, someone would have said so by now. I'm the only one, who isn't cool with that. But, I'll be ok. But, I will say I told you so...when that time comes. I am guessing you were either typing this when I was replying our you are trolling. |
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