Markstroms stats

[Garner-Calgary]

Why are markstroms stats worse than adin hills? Asking for a friend.

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

Let him know that its because of Hill's .913 save percentage last year versus to Markstrom's .904 that drives their current card values.

The logic that calculates goalies cards uses the goalies better stat when compared to league average (either Save Pct of GAA) to use as the base for card values.

If both goalies continue their same pace in the NHL this year, Markstrom's card will blow Hills out of the water.

[Chris-Suffolk]

My friend was asking about Hill Vs Demko...very similar stats, dissimilar cards.

.285 GAA, .915 SvPtg Yields 53-59 GHL Card in 35 GP, 1 SO. = 1 Big Save

Vs

.274 GAA, .913 SvPtg Yields 58-65 GHL Card in 19 GP, 2 SO = 2 Big Save

I leave it you to determine who's card is who's, which is irrelevant.

But, again we see small sample size yields large rewards. Whereas, in the NHL it isn't as impactful as it is in the GHL. This continues to be the loophole in the GHL. Although, there have been tremendous strides in this sim to reign in anomalies, there still is room for improvement. I just wish, BEFORE, we move forward in Card creations, those type issues are 1-discussed, 2-agreed upon, 3-implemented.

Then, you can compare the two players 2021 GHL stats, which isn't necessarily an indication of individual stats, but more so of team strength. There's difference btwn the two teams, but the goaltender edge goes LARGELY to the weaker team (arguably), yet the defensive ratings OVERALL aren't very different at all.

***You'll have to wait until Suffolk has recovered from the Covid Protocol--10-14 days from now.

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

Just to note, the goalie calculations haven't been changed for at least 8 or 9 years (if ever). That being said and understanding that IRL goalie stats are largely driven by the team playing in front of them, I would be happy to listen to feedback as to how to better rate goalies moving forward.

[Chris-Suffolk]

I would suggest, first we move this thread to another, perhaps..."Goalie Card Derivation"

I will also defer to any goalie Gm's in this league for suggestion of stats/ideas to solidify an aggregate.

Obviously, Shots faced versus Goals Allowed, which I assume is already being used, as large indicator. Then there are the write-ups and scouting columns that can be used to help round out the other attributes.

For example, and not a butt-hurt issue for me, I look at Samsanov's card and find small issues. His card reflects a higher Technical portion/rating and lower Athletic rating. Ranging from 7's to 4's in Tech, yet 4's and 5's in Athletic. His scouting report is completely opposite of this card creation. Just as an example.

That all being said, I don't even know if the Sim takes into account a goalies Reflexes, his Angles, Quickness, etc...But, again, I'd have to assume, that it does...OR at least hope that it does. Because I know it matters how Proficient a Shooter is in the GHL. That would lend itself to determine a goalies prowess too.

Just a spitball of ideas to kick off discussion. Not looking for an immediate change. Not at all saying I expected different/better scores for my goaltenders before the year started either. Just saying, we need to get a better understanding on how to go forward in creation/implementation of a goaltenders stats in creating his card.

Feel free to move this thread/post.

[Chris-Suffolk]

Dec 11, 2021 10:09:49 GMT -5 Glenn-Philadelphia said:

Just to note, the goalie calculations haven't been changed for at least 8 or 9 years (if ever). That being said and understanding that IRL goalie stats are largely driven by the team playing in front of them, I would be happy to listen to feedback as to how to better rate goalies moving forward.

What about my friends question comparing Demko and Hill?

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

The same logic applies to Demko and Hill as it applies to Hill and Markstrom. It's the same when you apply it to goalie X and goalie Y when X and Y are any 2 goalies that have cards.

[Chris-Suffolk]

Yeah, well, that doesn't really answer the disparity in their cards. But, I guess we don't get to question numbers and algorithms and the such, when we don't actually know the numbers and algorithms, or how they're derived. But, I appreciate the rapid response from customer service...Guess we can circle back to this again, and again, and again...

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

Chris,

I will have to look at the code/databases used when making the cards. Once we are done with them, I generally don't dust them off until the following year.

Glenn

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

The last step before pushing the cards to the website is to check gross averages for forwards and d-men Off/Def/Shot/ShotPct as well as goalies total points (athl + tech).

For goalies we usually take the average for guys who have played 30 games but because of the CoVID shortened season last year 20 games was used instead. Last year this yielded a modification value of .88 so this factor was applied to goalies who played 20 games or more. The factor was not applied to goalies with less than 20 NHL GP as they were not counted in the average that generates the modification needed. The value could very well be a positive adjustment in any given year as well so if that was the case, the guys listed below would have been negatively impacted by the process.

Below are a list of the goalies and their total comp scores that were spared the reduction.

Anderson, Craig --- 80
Brossoit, Laurent --- 140
Comrie, Eric --- 80
Daccord, Joey --- 87
Dansk, Oscar --- 76
Delia, Collin --- 98
Dell, Aaron --- 76
Domingue, Louis --- 78
Forsberg, Anton --- 114
Georgiev, Alexandar --- 113
Gibson, Christopher --- 80
Grosenick, Troy --- 80
Gustavsson, Filip --- 130
Halak, Jaroslav --- 121
Hill, Adin --- 123
Hogberg, Marcus --- 76
Houser, Michael --- 80
Husso, Ville --- 79
Hutchinson, Michael --- 120
Hutton, Carter --- 76
Kaskisuo, Kasimir --- 80
Kinkaid, Keith --- 117
Kivlenieks, Matiss --- 80
Knight, Spencer --- 80
Korenar, Josef --- 91
Lehner, Robin --- 140
Luukkonen, Ukko-Pekka --- 80
Lyon, Alex --- 79
McElhinney, Curtis --- 80
Melnichuk, Alexei --- 76
Miller, Ryan --- 76
Mrazek, Petr --- 130
Pickard, Calvin --- 77
Prosvetov, Ivan --- 76
Raanta, Antti --- 106
Rittich, David --- 102
Samsonov, Ilya --- 110
Stolarz, Anthony --- 120
Subban, Malcolm --- 95
Swayman, Jeremy --- 130
Tokarski, Dustin --- 102
Vehvilainen, Veini --- 76
Wedgewood, Scott --- 95
Zagidulin, Artyom --- 76

[Chris-Suffolk]

QUESTION 1: Are Goalie Attributes SPECIFICALLY "Individual Categories" (ie: Mental, Quickness, Positioning, Angles) USED in determining whether a Goalie makes a SAVE or allows a GOAL?

Or, are the OVERALL Categories (Technical and Athletic) used to determine a SAVE or GOAL?

QUESTION 2: Who is determining the Individual Category Scores?

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

1) Whenever a shot is is resolved one of the goalie stats are used (1 determined randomly).

2) For goalies who have been rated by GMs, these ratings are used to distribute the scores in each category. Players who have not been rated are assigned an average score and the remaining points are assigned randomly. Meaning if a guy has 26 points to assign for tech composite score, 26/4 = 4 with a remainder of 2. 4 points would be assigned to each category and the remaining 2 would be assigned randomly.

[Chris-Suffolk]

I ask about about Question #2, because I Really have to question Demko having TWO scores of 1...1 in each column. ONLY one other Goalie in the Entire GHL even has a 1 rating!!! And, that player is Carey Price, who was injured most of last season and had a .901 SvPtcg in 25 games, versus Demko who had a .915 SvPctg in 35 games.

How you can give a goalie a 1 rating for BALANCE and POSITIONING??? I understand we give rookies 1's and 2's across the board. But, Demko is the ONLY other goalie in this entire league that got slapped with a 1, yet he was given two 1's.

EVERY goalie in this league, whether they are 40-40 or 58-60 has balanced cards. No one has a 1!!! NONE! Even the guys with 30-30 cards have 3 and 4's up and down.

This directly affects the players mentioned....Price and Demko both have winning records but their SvPctg is ridiculous. IMO, and in your description above, their 1 rating in critical categories is skewing their performance.

There is not a chance in hell Demko, OR any other starting goalie in the NHL/GHL, should be given a 1!!!! Unless he sucks!

I have a serious problem with that!


PS...I'm excluding Scott Darling (SYR), who has a 20-20 card and was signed for 100k Minors Contract

[Chris-Suffolk]

just give me a legit reason why Demko is the ONLY goalie with a .915 Sv Ptg (NHL) and has a 1 Rating in multiple cat's. And, then once you do, please tell me why the other goalies in this league with Less than .905 Sv Ptg DON"T have at least one score of 1.

[Jon-Seattle]

Dec 13, 2021 21:31:19 GMT -5 Chris-Suffolk said:

just give me a legit reason why Demko is the ONLY goalie with a .915 Sv Ptg (NHL) and has a 1 Rating in multiple cat's. And, then once you do, please tell me why the other goalies in this league with Less than .905 Sv Ptg DON"T have at least one score of 1.

random allotment of skills and no recent rating (I’m guessing your all 8-9 assessment from 2018 is to old to use). Which means his other stats are artificially increased to compensate for the distribution of the rest of his points, which gives you an edge in other categories.

So in other words there is no great way to allocate points to the goalie specialty stats unless you want to put in your own scouting report like you did in 2018. But that won’t be his rating. His ratings will be allocated based on the equivalent point value he is given based on his accumulated stats (which I’m guessing is slotted based on the save % and GAA).

Even if the old scouting report you submitted was used he’d just have mostly 5s (and maybe a six) across the board instead of the three sevens and 3 sixes he currently has.