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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Jul 16, 2015 12:02:27 GMT -5
Do we have a firm CAP number for this year and is the compliance page accurate and finished?
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 16, 2015 14:20:47 GMT -5
The cap hasn't been changed and I hadn't planned on upping it but I could be dissuaded if someone presents a good case as to why it should go up. My fear is that the mike Weavers will be getting 12.5M instead of 10.5M if we raise it even with the new mandatory contract length periods.
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Jul 16, 2015 15:14:41 GMT -5
The cap hasn't been changed and I hadn't planned on upping it but I could be dissuaded if someone presents a good case as to why it should go up. My fear is that the mike Weavers will be getting 12.5M instead of 10.5M if we raise it even with the new mandatory contract length periods. The minimum signing term as instituted IS the correct step but I'm afraid that no matter what the size of the cap, those teams intent on overspending are going to do it regardless. Limiting or flatlining the cap will hurt more honest teams building efforts than it will having the other effect on the (fewer) teams that try to game the system. |
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 16, 2015 16:40:14 GMT -5
I honestly feel the budget salary cap we have is good and bad. Good because it does prohibit overspending to some extent but bad because it limits, as Phil pointed out, honest hard working, draft reliant teams. I am currently spending approximately 4-5 million less than an NHL has available to spend on their top 23 players due to this. Last season my 23-25 man roster hit my cap at around 64 million while the NHL was at 69 and I was right up against the cap. The NHL raised the cap to 71.4 for this season. I would like to propose that we raise our base cap to at least 70 (+5, for our minor league allowance) = 75... And come up with lower elc #'s for our drafted players. Currently if we draft one player in each round who is not considered a prospect, the total cap hit is 3.85 million. Lowering a first round pick to 850k and all following rounds to 500k would cut that total cap hit by 1 million. That is just quick math but the idea is there. Thoughts?
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Jul 16, 2015 17:34:33 GMT -5
The NHL Entry level contract can go up to 2.8 million for three years I believe. Without taking up the time to 'play agent' and have someone find the value of their little budding snowflake....I think Glenn's current draft round tier is fairly satisfactory.
I also feel that the signing term limits adjustment will go a long way to alleviating the problem of throwing money at players. Now there are consequences. I think it will help put the spending closer to realism.
That said, I'm in favor of mirroring the current NHL cap.
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 16, 2015 18:01:20 GMT -5
Even if the NHL cap goes down?... And typically 900k is what teams sign their elc players to but they have the luxury of two way contracts, we do not.
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Jul 17, 2015 9:00:28 GMT -5
Even if the NHL cap goes down?... And typically 900k is what teams sign their elc players to but they have the luxury of two way contracts, we do not. Like inflation, I don't think the CAP can/will ever go down. In the lookout season it was adjusted but I don't think it was really lowered. |
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 17, 2015 9:23:02 GMT -5
I think we're on the right track with Matt's proposal to curb overspending but I also feel a little hindered by the budget as a draft reliant team. We have definitely made steps in the right direction by implementing this and the prospects.
On another note, I would like to clear up how players who go to Europe affect our cap. Kovalchuk is a prime example and after a conversation with Scott-NJ yesterday, I think there is some confusion. We all know we can hold these players for 100k but how that affects their contract length may be in question. What I took away from a conversation with Glenn was that by retaining them we are essentially extending their contract for a year as well which means if that player retired, we are on the hook for the remainder of that contract and if they come back to the NHL, they can play out the remainder before becoming free agents. Is this correct and if so, can we add the current end year of these players to the team pages? I have no idea when Kovalchuk's contract expires and as such an not sure how his contract affects me if he were to retire/come back to the NHL ala Jagr.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 17, 2015 11:54:10 GMT -5
2 things
1. Explain how those "Hard Working draft reliant teams" are hurt by not raising the cap. Wouldn't teams that build through free agency be hurt most by no increase? Building through draft should afford you a ton of cap. 10 of my 20 roster players are all on ELC and I am not in cap trouble. I get that when ELC runs out and everyone needs to get paid it might be impossible to keep everyone but that mimics the NHL. I guarantee Chicago and Boston didn't want to lose the guys they did this offseason but it happened and its all part of cap management
2. I am not in favor of lowering contracts of draft picks. I feel all draft salaries are reasonable Strome 1 mil til 2017, Zucker Nelson Mrazek 900k for another year, Nieto 800k til 2017, Toffoli 650k for another year. There is also a free buyout for all drafted players if you whiffed on a pick. The fact that the use of the free drop is so rare should be enough evidence that owners don't think drafted players contracts are too high or burdensome or they would be dropping players like crazy. Clearly its worth the 650k a year to take a chance on a guy and see if he ever makes it.
Just my opinions but I'd be fine with what Glenn suggested and just leaving it static from here on out. We don't have to worry about things like dividing up league revenues to players, inflation or any of the other factors that went into the CBA salary cap discussions. In 10 years McDavid may be making 20 mil a year in the NHL while his FHL card makes 5 mil but who cares.
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 17, 2015 12:06:58 GMT -5
Your points are extremely valid and I'm not arguing that when your team is full of guys on elc's that you will not be cap hindered... But as you pointed out, you'll never keep them all as they mature and that's fine as well, like you said, fact of real life. My point is gauged specifically at the drafted players not on your roster that for us count against our cap. In the NHL, these players do not count against cap numbers.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 17, 2015 12:23:05 GMT -5
Your points are extremely valid and I'm not arguing that when your team is full of guys on elc's that you will not be cap hindered... But as you pointed out, you'll never keep them all as they mature and that's fine as well, like you said, fact of real life. My point is gauged specifically at the drafted players not on your roster that for us count against our cap. In the NHL, these players do not count against cap numbers. If you draft your picks every year max draft picks will count against your cap is 10.5 mil sometimes higher or lower depending on prospected but probably balances out to around 10.5 mil unless you trade for more picks (Cap Management - Your Choice) I don't see why 65 mil for 30-35 guys is that much of a burden to say out of cap trouble especially when you can have minor leaguers for 100k. Plus if we kept raising cap Glenn would have to adjust RFA asking prices every year to be in line with a higher cap |
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 17, 2015 13:13:50 GMT -5
I'm really not trying to nit pick this issue, just point-counterpoint here but if you have 3 years draft picks (15 players) hitting your cap, that's 11.55 million. We are currently at a 74 million budget which leaves 62.45 million for 30 players. That's an average of just over 2 million per. I'd be curious to see what the NHL average salary per player is.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 17, 2015 13:37:17 GMT -5
I'm really not trying to nit pick this issue, just point-counterpoint here but if you have 3 years draft picks (15 players) hitting your cap, that's 11.55 million. We are currently at a 74 million budget which leaves 62.45 million for 30 players. That's an average of just over 2 million per. I'd be curious to see what the NHL average salary per player is. Just another point-counterpoint using our teams NYA 15 minor leaguers - 2.075 mil = 138,333.00 Average Total Cap - 74 mil roster 45-50 players Less: Draft picks (15 players at 11.55 mil) Less: Minor League (15 players at 2.075 mil) Cap Space Remaining 60.375 mil for 15-20 players 15 players - 4.025 mil per player 20 players - 3.01 mil per player HAM 12 minor leaguers - 1.83 mil = 152,600 Average Total Cap - 74 mil roster 45-50 players Less: Draft picks (15 players at 11.55 mil) Less: Minor League (12 players at 1.83 mil) Cap Space Remaining 60.620 mil for 18-23 players 18 players - 3.367 mil per player 23 players - 2.64 mil per player NHL 14-15 Salary Cap 69 mil and 23 roster player 3 mil per player If you factor out the minor league players and the draft picks the money we spend on our players is higher than the NHL average salary currentyl. If you factor out draft picks you need to factor out minor leaguers too to get an accurate number. |
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 17, 2015 13:41:54 GMT -5
Even if none of our draft picks over the last 3 years are useable (Highly unlikely/unlucky) we can both put together a team of 20 skaters for the same average as an NHL team this year, just have 3 less players but I'm sure 3 of the 15 picks should be at least able to have a spot in the skybox.
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Post by Matt-Colorado on Jul 17, 2015 14:21:56 GMT -5
I have no idea when Kovalchuk's contract expires and as such an not sure how his contract affects me if he were to retire/come back to the NHL ala Jagr. Kovalchuk had a 2015 RFA contract. He will be an RFA up for negotiation with your club or whoever has his rights when/if his card comes back to play. If he retires, since his contract has ended, you're not on the hook for his 6.3 mil cap hit. But you do retain his RFA right if he ever does come back. |
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