Changes to card values

[Owen-Moncton]

I  noticed tonight that a number of my top off season acquisitions as well as returning players have had their card values altered since snapshotting them two weeks ago. Stralman in particular has had his speed rating slashed by 50%. Stamkos, Chara, Hedman and Talbot have also seen changes in their values. My starting goalie dropped in some categories (Mentally, he went from an 8 to a 5, which is perplexing, considering his NHL team value this past season). It begs them questions: 
1) what's the point in due diligence and e-scouting if the player youre either acquiring or keeping suddenly sees unpredictable changes in value?
2) Was this anticipated or announced?
3) Has anyone else noticed similar changes?
4) how are these alterations derived? is this a coding activity based on a formula?

Thanks.
OD

[Chris-Suffolk]

I haven't noticed changes to my players cards...But, I have noticed that I have a player ( Demko ) who has "0" rating for Footwork. I assume/d that the goalie cards were still being worked on, or that there would be changes made.

Is it correct to assume this? Don't know how a goalie would have a ZERO in Footwork...seems to be a pretty important fundamental value specifically for goalies.

[Phil-Cornwall]

I only noticed the Goalie cards being changed. Young Christopher is correct. There were some non-realistic category scores - some 1's and 2's for some of the elite goalies and I think those were 'fixed'.


Best thing to do is 'even em' out' somewhat unless we can find a chart on 'glove hand ratings in the NHL' and apply real stuff like that.

[Owen-Moncton]

Hmmmm...


Here's how I view this:

If I have a Dodge Charger listed for sale and you come and test drive it, decide you want it, and agree to the asking price and I tell you I'll have the paperwork drawn up and the vehicle delivered, we shake hands, you put the funds in my account and then wait eagerly to take possession. If the payment clears and the car shows up and I've taken the liberty of swapping out the 1600 dollar rims and the stereo for something of lesser value, youre gonna probably wanna know what the heck is up. You might be a tad miffed.

If I happen to sell you a fleet of high end used cars and every one of them have been 'modified' (read: devalued) youre probably gonna be extra-miffed. And justifiably so.

Moral: we all just wanna get what we pay for. Even in a hockey sim meant for fun and a bit of distraction.

[Dane-Hamilton]

I think this happens every year. I think the Off/Def/Neut all stay the same and the sub categories are adjusted to make sure their total isn't more/less than the Category total.

For Stralman and Neutral Rating (75)
Strength - 8
Quickness - 5
Speed - 5
Grit - 7
HockeyIQ - 7
Hits - 4

Total - 36x2(From conversion to 100 based cards)=72

I think the reason it isn't 75 exactly is likely due to rounding, that 8 might actually be an 8.3 etc.



I could be completely wrong and Glen should clarify but if Stralman speed was ever a 10 his neutral rating subtotal would have been 82 which is much higher than the actual neutral rating of 75.

[Dane-Hamilton]

Actually who knows looked at Mackinnon and his Offense is 100 but categories only total 90. Maybe all of the cards haven't been adjusted or I don't have any idea how the subcategories fit in with the OFF/DEF/NEUT anymore which is more likely.

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

Just seeing this thread now. The last 2 days was quarter end and that means us IT guys are real busy cranking out reports for the powers that be.

The sum of the sub categories are always a function of the overall comp number for the given category (off/def/neut). Either yesterday or the day before I ran the process of allocating scores based on GM ratings and then re-ran the stat rake program which makes sure that the sub categories add up the the correct value based on the composite score. It is not a simple addition but a function (in looking at Mackinnon it looks like it is a little less than half of the total value) that is used when fleshing out the sub categories.

Before I ran this process I backed up the old values as well just in case there would be a problem in processing. So I have a snap shot of Stammer as well. Here is what I show:

All Core numbers unchanged (OFF/DEF/NEUT/FORT/STAM/etc)

Subcatagory changes:

OFF
Stickhandle + 1
Find Space - 1
(net dif 0)

DEF
Backcheck +1
Deny Space -1
(net dif 0)

NEUT
Quickness -1
Hockey IQ -2
Speed +2
Grit +1
(net dif 0)

In regards to Demko that is odd given the fact that his other numbers are more in the normal goalie range. I did a quick check and see that he was a player who at least 1 GM did ratings for (and there was a footwork number included) so I need to look at the SQL that calculates that field as I am guessing I might have a typo in there somewhere. I will get him fixed up and look for other goalies with the same issue.

*edit - I didn't see any other goalies with a footwork of 0. I have untied the tie-ing of Demkos skates to one another and he is now able to remain upright on the ice.

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

I also see checked Stralman before and after.

He has never been rated by a GM so his sub scores are going to be assigned by taking a general average of his comp score and using that as a base randomly applying the excess amount (in the case of remainder) to one of the 5 applicable sub categories.

All Core numbers unchanged (OFF/DEF/NEUT/FORT/STAM/etc)

Subcatagory changes:

OFF
Vision + 1
Pinch + 1
Stickhandle -1
Net Pres -1
(net dif 0)

DEF
Awareness -1
Range -1
Lane Ctrl -1
Deny Space +3
(net dif 0)

NEUT
Strength +3
Quickness -1
Hockey IQ +1
Speed -5
Grit +2
(net dif 0)

I don't know enough about Stralman's speed to comment off the cuff but I don't ever recall his name being mentioned in the same breath with Mackinnon or MacDavid when someone is referring to the leagues speed demons.

That being said, All GMs have the ability to rate any player by following the link on the set lineup page. Here is a video that discusses the process.

[Owen-Moncton]

Thanks for taking the time to research this Glenn. I appreciate it. I get the logic behind what you and others are saying but the fact remains that the discrepancy between what was advertised and what was ultimately realized is not congruent, especially with respect to Stralman. Suggesting after the fact that it was the responsibility of the buyer to artificially inflate values via GM ratings seems counterintuitive to me in a sim wherein card values are derived from past performance. Opining on assets— my own and otherwise— really shouldn’t have much of a bearing on the overall value.

One of Stralmans greatest selling feature was his speed. Sure it shocked me that he was that fast. But not as much as it shocked me that post deal he has been re-rated A’s altogether average. I’d appreciate it if you split the difference in fairness.
Cam Talbot became Calgary’s starter and had a very good year. Somehow he has become mentally impaired in the process which makes absolutely no sense to me. Please consider this and make the value a closer reflection of his value based on actual performance.
Thanks

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

I don't have a problem with that. What neutral skills do you want me to reduce to arrive at the common middle ground or should I just pick them?

[Owen-Moncton]

In terms of Talbot, please adjust his PENALTY rating to a 1 and bump his MENTAL score to 7 if that's OK with you. For Stralman, please reduce STRENGTH to 7 and GRIT to 6 and increase SPEED to 7. Thank you.

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

Penalty rating is not an arbitrary rating. That is based on his penalty minutes so that c ant be adjusted

[Glenn-Philadelphia]

Stralman has been changed as requested.

[Owen-Moncton]

Thanks... thinking about Talbot, if hisPIMS rating is a 3, then his mentality is probably pretty accurate.