Goalies Fatigue During Playoffs

[Dane-Hamilton]

Jun 25, 2024 10:15:21 GMT -5 Scott-New York said:

Season... that's the difference. Quick did not play at all in the playoffs and that's the focus of this discussion. Did Bob look tired in game 7? With the exception of injury or being pulled, #1 goalies typically play every minute in the post-season. That is impossible in the G because they would be at least -2 yellow, orange, or whatever that is if a team were to ride them comparable to what is done in the NHL

Isn't it set up currently that you could play a Goalie every minute in the playoffs without them being forced out of lineup? I thought Glenn mentioned that before and assumed that was the case as low stamina goalies have carried teams while being in tired status.

If that's the case, every Goalie is capable of carrying the team for duration of playoffs just how comfortable you are with the attribute penalties (and possible increased injury risk) associated with playing a tired Goalie.

My position on this is basically

1. Goalies in playoffs should never be forced out of a game for anything other than injuries
2. Stamina system as it is currently works fine (especially if reset for playoffs) low stamina goalies attributes are penalized quickly while 10 stamina goalies take much longer to get "tired"

This seems more about owners not wanting to take their starter out in playoffs but currently they don't, only if they don't want the attribute penalty. This is also the same for every owner. Pitt was fine playing his starter every game and accepted the penalty...I on the other hand wanted my goalies blue. Instead of penalty to starter stats I was penalized by playing my lesser Goalie. It's all dice rolls anyway so maybe a tired starter is better than a rested backup but it's up to owner how to manage it.

The only change I'd really like to see is a boost to goalies status when their team finishes a series early and has multiple days off, other than that I think the Goalie stamina system was something we already had working well.

If there isn't already a mechanism to stop Goalie from being unable to start due to status then def put that in but I don't see the need to change the status floor for different goalies when stamina already does a good job of that. A 10 stamina Goalie likely wouldn't turn -2 in the playoffs and if they do the other team is dealing with the same issue. You'll either both be playing tired status goalies or the other team rolled the dice and played backup to get a slight edge in later rounds.

[Scott-New York]

I can assure you that even a 10 stamina goalie would be less than green if played throughout the playoffs under our current stamina system. With that said, I'm not willing to let my goalies go beyond that during the regular season, so I'm not 100% how long it would take them to fall below that level but I do manage my goalies manually during the season and playoffs so I have a general idea of how quickly the status declines. Information such as this would be helpful. What was Pittsburgh's goalie status in game 7? How many games had he played at that point? The one thing I've noted about it goalie status that I do not like is that the status is not updated during days off. For example, if goalie enters the all star break green, he will remain green until after his next start. If we had a way to remedy this, I would be closer to agreeing with the system being fine as is.

[Chris-Suffolk]

Jun 25, 2024 13:52:59 GMT -5 Phil-Cornwall said:

Stamina seems to work ok for the skaters...just watch the "DVR" and you will see the yellow and orange colors. Chris (Suffolk) played his 4th line very little and double shifted his top guys and they did show as tired. His depth and player skill obviously allowed this strategy to work well.

Perhaps the Goalie stamina needs a lot more work/coding to get closer to realism.

I played my 4th line very limited throughout the season. Kept them at 6 mins max during the regular season because they were more of a liability. I watch my lines and try not to let line combinations with negative +/- go long stretches, unless my team has no other option. I took an approach whereas I'd rather have my top 3 lines play the majority and allow the 4th line limited minutes. I was fortunate. This year, IMO, there was great parity within the league, probably the closest we've had.
It really was a nice season with most teams being close to par with each opponent, excluding a couple of top notch teams (Halifax/Hamilton).

[Dane-Hamilton]

Agree he wouldn't be green but he'd stay at -1 for quite some time before going to -2 (auto bench in regular season).

I think goalies should be able to play entire playoffs at -1 or -2 and never be autobenched. Just not a fan of giving minimum levels of green or blue for high Stam goalies since I think our current system rewards Goalie stamina well already.

[Chris-Suffolk]

I agree with both Dane and Scott here...Lance would be better to answer Hellebuyck's status in playoffs. I think I recall Hellebuyck being -2 in the semi's against Colorado. He never dropped below that rating, I don't even know if there is a lower rating.

I would also like to see goalies in playoff series that finish in less than 7 games be able to recover stamina status.

When I used to play in a Strat-O-Matic Baseball league, No Player was able to play more games than his STATS indicated he had played. For ex: If Joe Blow played 100 games in the MLB, he couldn't play more than 100 games in our League. You had to MANAGE your players and your team.

That was something I had mentioned years ago. Doesn't matter if we're talking about goalies of skaters. Is any interested in that approach to players?

[Lance-Pittsburgh]

Jun 25, 2024 19:59:16 GMT -5 Chris-Suffolk said:

Lance would be better to answer Hellebuyck's status in playoffs. I think I recall Hellebuyck being -2 in the semi's against Colorado. He never dropped below that rating, I don't even know if there is a lower rating.

Hellebuyck was a -2 throughout the Cup Final.

[Dane-Hamilton]

Yea that's probably too low for too long for a 10 stam.

I'd be fine with a -1 floor for all goalies. Possibly something like green floor for 9+ stamina goalies and have -2 as a floor for 3 Stam and under.

Feel like -1 isn't that harsh of a penalty for majority of goalies and green floor does seem fair for higher stamina.

[Scott-New York]

I would be interested in knowing how long he stayed green before turning yellow, but knowing he stayed at the -2 level for that long actually tells me that logic works just fine. I think if any changes are needed, the focus needs to be on how the formula is calculated as I mentioned earlier, how the rest is taken into affect and more so when the fatigue affect changes after test instead of waiting for a game played to update this.

[Dane-Hamilton]

Also curious if goalies get reset for playoffs or if his 60 regular season games accelerated his tired status.

-2 which is the equivalent to regular season "auto benching" is likely too low of a level for a 10 Stam Goalie in the playoffs. I'm not sure the actual penalty but if -1 is 10% hit and -2 is 20% Pitt was essentially playing a 53-59 Goalie in the finals which doesn't seem right for a workhorse goalie.

I think -1 should be the floor at a minimum for all goalies in the playoffs which would allow Hellebuyck to still play as a 59-66 BUT if that's the minimum I could also see people riding their 3 stamina Goalie with great stats the entire playoffs knowing they'll only ever drop to -1.

If I had to throw out idea I'd say 1-3 Stam goalies -2 floor, 4-8 Stam -1 floor, 9-10 Stam green floor.