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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 15, 2014 11:14:08 GMT -5
Actually, last year, Thunder Bay pretty much ran over everyone in their way. Did you notice the player cards on that team. Not impressive, good, but not great, however, most of them had very good stamina...
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 11:48:59 GMT -5
You can absolutely be a 'one year' superman star with high numbers and stats here in the 'G' based on one good nhl year.
The realism is that, that nhl player will probably have a lesser nhl year to follow and then the ghl stats will show that. That's accurate and real imo.
The tried and true workhorse goalies the king henry and miller have even keel, very good ghl stats all due to their steady nhl play.
The 'backup' nhl goalies can excel and have great ghl stats , even better than those guys but are much more likely to 'fall back to earth' the next year.
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 11:52:17 GMT -5
Actually, last year, Thunder Bay pretty much ran over everyone in their way. Did you notice the player cards on that team. Not impressive, good, but not great, however, most of them had very good stamina... Weak conference. I beat him last year. He would have got 8 or 9 less wins over in our conference
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 12:03:35 GMT -5
I believe goalies use both nhl and ahl stats. While ahl wins and save percentage is obviously not as good as nhl. It still helps round out the players GHL composite especially for total games played and GHL fortitude. Was told that is not the case, or else Mrazek and his 32 AHL games would be much closer to Ortio and his 37 AHL games. I also don't feel like AHL should go into stam fortitude yes but a backup NHL guys should not be made a workhorse starter in FHL. Looking into your boy Mrazek...heres the issue. He only played nine NHL games. THAT is why he is low in stamina. Glenn said that the 'nerf' cutoff for goalies is 12 or 14 NHL games. Less than that and the sim considers you to truly be a 'backup' and your stats get nerfed. That method seems a decent accounting for 'backup' status. Then AFTER you see if your player meets the 14 NHL game mark, AHL stats are then used to round out the GHL stats. High numbers of ahl games and good stats being helpful to ghl scores...low ahl stats lowering ghl scores.
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Post by Ian-Halifax on Aug 15, 2014 12:06:51 GMT -5
I thought it was determined that if a goalie has an NHL card then only NHL games would be taken into account for stamina?
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 12:10:43 GMT -5
I thought it was determined that if a goalie has an NHL card then only NHL games would be taken into account for stamina? I understand it to be minor league stats, if any, are always used for all positions especially goalies.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 15, 2014 12:25:36 GMT -5
I thought it was determined that if a goalie has an NHL card then only NHL games would be taken into account for stamina? I understand it to be minor league stats, if any, are always used for all positions especially goalies. Why would. Mrazek be a 3 and Ortio a 7 then
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 12:31:54 GMT -5
Offhand id say ortio played five more ahl games?...i agree...the difference is odd
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 15, 2014 12:33:37 GMT -5
Offhand id say ortio played five more ahl games? 5 Ahl games = 4 more stam? I think some backups just got through the stamina nerfing
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 12:37:42 GMT -5
A 'three' stamina is really bad. That low should only be guys who played a total of less than ten ahl,nhl combined games.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 15, 2014 12:39:26 GMT -5
A 'three' stamina is really bad. That low should only be guys who played a total of less than ten ahl,nhl combined games. I don't know tho I think 3 is fair for a backup like mrazek don't want him to be able to play 50 games and be the go to guy in the GHL but that's just me
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 15, 2014 12:40:21 GMT -5
Would also increase value of starters like smith and fleury like Chris alluded to
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Post by Brian-Cleveland on Aug 15, 2014 14:01:21 GMT -5
I don't understand the goalie stamina stat either. Ortio, my own guy, is a perfect example. In this year's GHL, two of the top goalies are Martin Jones and Brian Elliott. Jones has a fortitude of 10 and a stamina of 7. Elliott has a fortitude of 10 and a stamina of 5. Jones played in 19 NHL games while Elliott played in 31. I do believe that Jones should have an unbelievable card, but he should have something closer to a 3 rating, which would better reflect the amount of games he played. Here are some goalies and their big two ratings as well as stamina and the amount of NHL games they played: Goalie | Technical | Athletic | Stamina | NHL Games | Jones, Martin | 46 | 46 | 7 | 19 | Elliott, Brian | 43 | 38 | 5 | 31 | Schneider, Cory | 43 | 38 | 7 | 45 | Talbot, Cam | 43 | 42 | 5 | 21 | Johnson, Chad | 41 | 40 | 5 | 27 | Stalock, Alex | 41 | 40 | 5 | 24 | Mrazek, Petr | 39 | 38 | 3 | 9 | Halak, Jaroslav | 38 | 37 | 8 | 52 | Andersen, Frederik | 37 | 38 | 6 | 28 | Grubauer, Philipp | 36 | 40 | 7 | 17 | Smith, Mike | 30 | 34 | 9 | 62 | Scrivens, Ben | 34 | 38 | 7 | 40 | Ortio, Joni | 32 | 28 | 7 | 9 |
That should be a decent look. I put my three goalies at the bottom. Here's the problem: For goalies like Martin Jones and Philipp Grubauer we are going by his NHL GAA and Save Percentage for his goalie ratings, but using a cumulative amount of games for his Stamina rating. Both goalies had great runs, but should they have the same stamina as legit starters like Cory Schneider? I think that if we're going to use NHL ratings for goalies then their stamina should reflect the amount of games they played in the NHL. Martin Jones was great during his time with the Kings, but was he a Vezina Trophy candidate? No. He wasn't even in the top 5. Going into this GHL season he's probably the one to beat. I think one of two methods should be used to determine a goalie's stamina. If we're going to rate his card based on the NHL games, then his stamina should reflect his time in the NHL only. If we want to give a cumulative stamina rating for games played in both the NHL and AHL then his overall ratings should reflect his time in both the NHL and AHL. Maybe AHL stats are 70% as valuable as NHL stats. That would lower his overall ratings while giving him a good stamina. I'm not suggesting that we change it this year across the board. Maybe look into the Mrazek/Ortio thing and see if there are any similar goalies (including ECHL Ortio played in 9 more games than Mrazek. That shouldn't be enough for a 7 stamina compared to Mrazek's 3). But I do hope that this starts a healthy and productive discussion to find better ways to determine a goalie's worth. It's ultimately Glenn's baby so it's his decision, and he said that he would post on the subject tonight, but this would be a great point of discussion that should be done after the free agency period.
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Post by Brian-Cleveland on Aug 15, 2014 14:03:06 GMT -5
Also, I'm assuming that stamina is based on minutes played rather than games played, so the above table is just a guide.
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 14:32:58 GMT -5
Gotta use both minor league stats for all players, especially goalies to get an accurate and realistic snapshot.
The 'true' seldom used backup goalie is peter budaj. He only plays say, 13,17,18 NHL games and does NOT get called down to the AHL...then there you have it. Perfect example of a "5" stamina. Now if that same goalie plays 15 NHL games but then also plays 20 or 30 AHL games, then his stamina should def be higher.
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