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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 14:37:53 GMT -5
Would also increase value of starters like smith and fleury like Chris alluded to This is a bad way to look at a simulation based on realism as a driving mechanic. We shouldnt look for excuses to nerf players or elevate some over others. There can absolutely be a superman one year wonder player of any position especially goalies based on good stats. Its totally realistic and we see it in the various forward positions and to a lesser extent, the defense.
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 14:38:07 GMT -5
Would also increase value of starters like smith and fleury like Chris alluded to This is a bad way to look at a simulation based on realism as a driving mechanic. We shouldnt look for excuses to nerf players or elevate some over others. There can absolutely be a superman one year wonder player of any position especially goalies based on good stats. Its totally realistic and we see it in the various forward positions and to a lesser extent, the defense.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 15, 2014 14:45:20 GMT -5
We don't use AHL stats for stamina on player cards, look at a guy like Sheahan logged huge minutes on Grand Rapids but not as many on Detroit so he only has a 4 stamina, if his AHL were factored in (other than fort) he'd be a first line NHL type card but as he is right now he's a 3rd liner which is exactly what he was on Detroit
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 14:57:16 GMT -5
I think glenn said it's easier to use ahl stats on the goalies, that and its needed a little more due to all the issues we are discussing right here about goalies.
I think there was a post where glenn said, long term , that he intends to use ahl stats more accurately for ALL player positions in the future. I like that level of stat usage, personally. Gets a better picture of the player.
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Post by Chris-Boston on Aug 15, 2014 18:14:20 GMT -5
I think that if AHL stamina and fortitude are taken into account, then the players stats should also be weighted, as Brian suggested. We can determine what that threshold is, but the main point is that a 20 goal scorer in the AHL is not the same caliber as a 20 goal NHL scorer.
In the same light, I think that goaltending cards should reflect the level of competition in which they were achieved. By doing so, we can balance out the issue of fortitude and stamina and the player's card performance.
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 15, 2014 18:22:28 GMT -5
Stamina and fortitude are the easiest of stats to cross over from ahl to nhl. Either you missed games or not....doesn't matter if its the bigs or the smalls.
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Post by Chris-Boston on Aug 15, 2014 18:45:38 GMT -5
I agree with you on the debate about fortitude and stamina but feel that performance stats such as goals and assists for players and save percentage and GAA for goalies should be weighted down a bit because they occurred in the AHL against lesser competition versus the stats accumulated by a NHL full timer.
Otherwise you could have a team of AHL all stars as you regular team with the same abilities as the best in the NHL.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 15, 2014 18:49:59 GMT -5
I agree with you on the debate about fortitude and stamina but feel that performance stats such as goals and assists for players and save percentage and GAA for goalies should be weighted down a bit because they occurred in the AHL against lesser competition versus the stats accumulated by a NHL full timer. Otherwise you could have a team of AHL all stars as you regular team with the same abilities as the best in the NHL. I think stamina is all that needs worked to fix this. You're a goalie that had a 1 gaa in 20 games have a stamina that allows them to do this would rather have a good mrazek as a 3 than a 30-30 as a 7
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 17, 2014 12:24:14 GMT -5
Wondering what's going on with this, I think you told me only NHL games go into them when Owen was trying to sell me miller based on his stamina, did we just not have time to fix stamina for every goalie cause looks like most goalies AHL games did go into stamina haven't looked at them all to see if others like Mrazek just had NHL games for stamina tho
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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 17, 2014 12:40:11 GMT -5
It is my understanding that we used a new method of determining player cards this year. If a player split time, the better off his two cards was used. Therefore, if a player's NHL stats resulted in a better player card, his stamina was determined based on NHL stats. This could result in higher stamina, of course, if his AHL stats resulted in a better player card. If this is incorrect, feel free to set me straight Glenn.
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Post by Ian-Halifax on Aug 17, 2014 13:24:08 GMT -5
Scott I think you are pretty much correct. The thing people are pointing out is that some of these goalies have both an "NHL" card and a high stamina when they really only played a few games in the NHL last season. I believe the best card an AHL goalie can have is 25-25, anything above that and you know the player's NHL stats were used to determine his card. As far as the best card being used. I'm not really sure if that's correct or not. Very well could be, but I would think someone like Poulin would have a better card if his AHL stats were used instead of NHL. Glenn would have to answer that one for you. Either way that's not really the concern, it's more about the fact that some goalie cards seem to be based off both AHL or NHL stats rather than just one.
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 17, 2014 16:11:29 GMT -5
I don't really get what your gripe is except staminas for backups are too high. Like I said Mrazek as a 3 will only get limited starts will not be blue more than 1 game and won't be able to play back to back without going yellow then taking extra long to turn blue again. I will play him once every 5 games against the leagues top team which is how I feel these "star" backups should be used. There is no problem with their card if a backup had a 1 GAA in 20 games he should have a card in the GHL that allows for that. Dane, I don't have a gripe with you at all. My gripe, if you want to call it that, is with any player card that has a rating "Above 10." There are quite a few gents with ratings in some categories "Above 10"...I dont know how any goalie has a 10 or better in Rebound Control!! Yet, there are!!!
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 19, 2014 17:05:08 GMT -5
This is a complex question, answer to come in the thread later today. bumping this again, did some research for guys who split significant time and I found this. Mike McKenna 24-27 (4 NHL, 36 AHL, 7 stamina) Jason Labarbera 14-17 (7 NHL, 34 AHL, 7 Stamina) Nathan Lieuwen 25-28 (7 NHL, 32 AHL, 7 Stamina) Matt Hackett 26-29 (8 NHL, 33 AHL, 7 stamina) Petr Mrazek 39-38 (9 NHL, 32 AHL, 3 Stamina) Joni Ortio 32-28 (9 NHL, 37 AHL, 7 Stamina) Joey MacDonald 25-22 (11 NHL, 16 AHL, 5 Stamina) Scott Clemmensen (17 NHL, 11 AHL, 5 stamina) Philipp Grubauer 36-40 (17 NHL, 28 AHL, 7 Stamina) Anders Nilsson 20-22 (19 NHL, 29 AHL, 8 Stamina) Martin Jones 46-45 (19 NHL, 22 AHL, 7 Stamina) Marek Mazanec 27-26 (25 NHL, 31 AHL, 9 Stamina) Just want to know if Mrazek was nerfed because we meant to have all backups like him and we didn't have time (which I'd like better) but if its too late to change that would like to know if Mrazek can at least be put back to normal so as to be on par with the other backups.
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 19, 2014 18:02:23 GMT -5
I agree, that Marazek is the only 'odd bird'. I'd increase his stamina by 4 but then take his stats down to a 30 30 goalie which is proper nerf for under 14 NHL games.
Realistically, i hope we don't do any more manipulation as we are too deep into the season.
I agree that goalie stat generation needs a bit of 'tightening' for next year.
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Post by Ian-Halifax on Aug 19, 2014 18:49:53 GMT -5
I agree, that Marazek is the only 'odd bird'. I'd increase his stamina by 4 but then take his stats down to a 30 30 goalie which is proper nerf for under 14 NHL games. Realistically, i hope we don't do any more manipulation as we are too deep into the season. I agree that goalie stat generation needs a bit of 'tightening' for next year. We shouldn't just be making cards up for people. If goalie stamina is incorrect, it should be fixed for everyone. I highly doubt not a single person noticed their goalie stamina was too high, I think many just hoped it would slip by. I had a guy last year who I thought had a card that was too high, the first thing I did was PM Glenn and let him know so he could nerf him if needed.
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