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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 18, 2022 16:43:42 GMT -5
Neither goalies or skaters have been raked as of yet where their sub scores are apportioned based on their Composite scores. Positions for players was pulled on 5/22/22 (I checked the date of the text file I created when pulling them) but I still need to see what the players in question are showing in there. The biggest concern I have now is players that shouldn't be draft eligible as was pointed out above. Reviewing that now. While I completely understand the draftable players should take precedence at this point, the position issue is also of importance in trade discussions which many of us are engaged in. My biggest concern is that free agent cards are not matching roster pages so I'm unsure of which is correct. The player card is the de-facto position that the simulation uses. I thought I understood where the issue is (aside from the few one off mentioned above about players positions). Can you give me an example of a free agent versus roster pages? Which page? Draft page? Player card pages? Let me know and I will take a look. |
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 18, 2022 16:49:24 GMT -5
For example. On my roster page, Greenway is a LW. On his player card, however, he is a LW/Rw.
This is the case for many players around the league.
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Post by Brenden-Oregon on Jul 18, 2022 16:57:36 GMT -5
I posted earlier something similar about Mikael Granlund except in this case, on my roster and his GHL card, he’s a RW when he’s listed on sports forecaster as a center on both his individual page and the Nashville roster page.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 18, 2022 17:10:42 GMT -5
For example. On my roster page, Greenway is a LW. On his player card, however, he is a LW/Rw. This is the case for many players around the league. OK, stored procedure has been updated to show most recent card values for Active Roster section, RFA section, UFA section and Prospect Section on the team pages. |
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 18, 2022 17:11:40 GMT -5
I posted earlier something similar about Mikael Granlund except in this case, on my roster and his GHL card, he’s a RW when he’s listed on sports forecaster as a center on both his individual page and the Nashville roster page. Yup, this was addressed above. I pulled the data back in May. I need to cross check to see if there are discrepancies in there versus what was loaded to the data tables. |
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Post by Brenden-Oregon on Jul 18, 2022 17:15:14 GMT -5
Thanks Glenn.
Also, not that it’s a big deal, but under the “under contract” menu of the player cards page, none of my UFA 2023 players are showing up. Did not check if other teams were or not. Just more of a heads up than anything.
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 18, 2022 17:15:17 GMT -5
Check Elias Pettersson. I only say this because I know he has been listed as a C,W on Vancouver's roster page for almost 2 years and he always shows up as only C when cards are loaded.
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Post by Brenden-Oregon on Jul 18, 2022 17:20:13 GMT -5
Check Elias Pettersson. I only say this because I know he has been listed as a C,W on Vancouver's roster page for almost 2 years and he always shows up as only C when cards are loaded. I’m wondering if that’s a possible discrepancy that Glenn was talking about because Granlund was a C/W last season as well. |
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 18, 2022 17:38:43 GMT -5
Possibly, I've just been playing him out of position because I like him better as a wing than a center but I know he usually actually plays center for the 'nucks
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Post by Jedediah-Hartford on Jul 19, 2022 6:55:45 GMT -5
Is it possible to get some clarification (or a refresher, since I'm sure this question has been asked in the past) on the threshold of a player getting a card based on their NHL output compared to their AHL output? Example: On the Chicago team I am caretaker for, Morgan Barron, and from my Hartford roster, Scott Reedy. Last year, Barron played 27 NHL games and 30 AHL games, while Reedy played 35 NHL games and 38 AHL games, with slightly better offensive production than Barron in the NHL. Barron's Card - 62-22 - with a stamina of 3 that is in line with his average NHL TOI. Reedy's card - 45-45 - with a stamina of 4, though based on his NHL average TOI it should also have been a 3. My question being, what is the determination that leads to Barron having a card capable of being played on a 4th line, while Reedy, despite arguably having the better NHL performance, ended up with a card that'll ultimately not be roster-worthy? I would think the larger amount of NHL games would favor Reedy's chances of at least a depth to 4th line-worthy card (at least for my team), but is the amount of AHL games ultimately working against him?
To bring in another card to compare, Anton Blidh currently has a 71-20 card after playing 3 fewer NHL games than Reedy (both players had 9 points in their respective NHL seasons). Blidh did not play any AHL games, so comparing those two it looks like Reedy's AHL games end up doing him a disservice at card creation time.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 19, 2022 7:52:07 GMT -5
OK, some players had been updated because of the new ID structure that the sportsforecaster site starting using. I modified the position assignment code to work around this and this all should be well now.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 19, 2022 8:05:11 GMT -5
Is it possible to get some clarification (or a refresher, since I'm sure this question has been asked in the past) on the threshold of a player getting a card based on their NHL output compared to their AHL output? Example: On the Chicago team I am caretaker for, Morgan Barron, and from my Hartford roster, Scott Reedy. Last year, Barron played 27 NHL games and 30 AHL games, while Reedy played 35 NHL games and 38 AHL games, with slightly better offensive production than Barron in the NHL. Barron's Card - 62-22 - with a stamina of 3 that is in line with his average NHL TOI. Reedy's card - 45-45 - with a stamina of 4, though based on his NHL average TOI it should also have been a 3. My question being, what is the determination that leads to Barron having a card capable of being played on a 4th line, while Reedy, despite arguably having the better NHL performance, ended up with a card that'll ultimately not be roster-worthy? I would think the larger amount of NHL games would favor Reedy's chances of at least a depth to 4th line-worthy card (at least for my team), but is the amount of AHL games ultimately working against him? To bring in another card to compare, Anton Blidh currently has a 71-20 card after playing 3 fewer NHL games than Reedy (both players had 9 points in their respective NHL seasons). Blidh did not play any AHL games, so comparing those two it looks like Reedy's AHL games end up doing him a disservice at card creation time.
We need to remember that players offensive card values are based on how they performed while they were on the ice. If a player gets 20 points playing in 40 games and played 8 mins per game, his stats would be higher than a player who got 25 points in 40 games but played 12 minutes a game. In that case the later would have a higher stamina rating. Regarding Barron and Reedy, Reedy's card is arguable better given his 90 total points versus the 84 of Barron. |
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Post by Jedediah-Hartford on Jul 19, 2022 9:41:08 GMT -5
Is it possible to get some clarification (or a refresher, since I'm sure this question has been asked in the past) on the threshold of a player getting a card based on their NHL output compared to their AHL output? Example: On the Chicago team I am caretaker for, Morgan Barron, and from my Hartford roster, Scott Reedy. Last year, Barron played 27 NHL games and 30 AHL games, while Reedy played 35 NHL games and 38 AHL games, with slightly better offensive production than Barron in the NHL. Barron's Card - 62-22 - with a stamina of 3 that is in line with his average NHL TOI. Reedy's card - 45-45 - with a stamina of 4, though based on his NHL average TOI it should also have been a 3. My question being, what is the determination that leads to Barron having a card capable of being played on a 4th line, while Reedy, despite arguably having the better NHL performance, ended up with a card that'll ultimately not be roster-worthy? I would think the larger amount of NHL games would favor Reedy's chances of at least a depth to 4th line-worthy card (at least for my team), but is the amount of AHL games ultimately working against him? To bring in another card to compare, Anton Blidh currently has a 71-20 card after playing 3 fewer NHL games than Reedy (both players had 9 points in their respective NHL seasons). Blidh did not play any AHL games, so comparing those two it looks like Reedy's AHL games end up doing him a disservice at card creation time.
We need to remember that players offensive card values are based on how they performed while they were on the ice. If a player gets 20 points playing in 40 games and played 8 mins per game, his stats would be higher than a player who got 25 points in 40 games but played 12 minutes a game. In that case the later would have a higher stamina rating. Regarding Barron and Reedy, Reedy's card is arguable better given his 90 total points versus the 84 of Barron. The examples I gave had fairly comparable TOI stats:
Blidh - 10:44
Barron - 9:48 Reedy - 11:11
Those aren't that much of a difference, they all fall within the ranges of a 3 stamina I track my players throughout the year on their production and TOI and make comparisons to past players to gauge my expectations on their potential card value as well as stamina expectations, using previous cards. This is more useful in tracking future OFF comp numbers than DEF comp, but since I started this my offensive estimates have lined up with the actual cards, Reedy's case excepted.
Regardless of the amount of "total points" between OFF comp and DEF comp, the difference between an OFF comp of 45 and a 62 (or 71) is way more than the effect of what a difference of less than 90 seconds of average ice time would have on how much a player's offensive stats are truly worth.
I'm not sure what the argument on total points being a plus is supposed to mean. I have minor leaguers on my roster whose total points are also better than Barron's but those players aren't anywhere close to being NHLers or GHLers (Example from my roster - Wyatt Newpower - his 39-47 card is "technically" two total points better than Barron but who in this league would take his card over Barron's?)
Moreover, the listing of Reedy's stamina as 4 and not 3 suggests to me that his NHL games were not taken into account at all. Looking at multiple rosters, it does appear as if 4 is the de facto stamina listing for minor leaguers, particularly those that made few or no NHL appearances last year. Reedy's avg TOI in the NHL does not line up with a 4 (which would line up with an average TOI range of 12:00 -14:30 based on my observations over the last few years). That's what leads me to ask my question, I am wondering if there is a certain amount of AHL games played that triggers a card that is AHL-based rather than NHL-based (while admitting I might be forgetting or making a bad assumption about the creation process).
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 19, 2022 13:01:55 GMT -5
I copied and pasted trying to answer each point. My responses in red below.
The examples I gave had fairly comparable TOI stats:
Blidh - 10:44
Barron - 9:48
Reedy - 11:11
Those aren't that much of a difference, they all fall within the ranges of a 3 stamina I track my players throughout the year on their production and TOI and make comparisons to past players to gauge my expectations on their potential card value as well as stamina expectations, using previous cards. This is more useful in tracking future OFF comp numbers than DEF comp, but since I started this my offensive estimates have lined up with the actual cards, Reedy's case excepted.
If there are AHL and NHL stats for a player then when the cards are generated there will be a record generated for each. These records are compared to one another (the NHL ones can be nerfed based on NHL GP) and the better card is used. I do not use AHL TOI when calculating stamina for 2 reasons (1, I am not sure if I am collecting it/it is available and 2, even if I did collect it/it was available, because a guy plays 20 minutes a game in the minors does not mean that he should have the same playing in the Bigs) so guys whose AHL values were used get a set stamina rating.
Regardless of the amount of "total points" between OFF comp and DEF comp, the difference between an OFF comp of 45 and a 62 (or 71) is way more than the effect of what a difference of less than 90 seconds of average ice time would have on how much a player's offensive stats are truly worth.
Offensive scores for NHL players are calculated based as I stipulated above (TOI compared to goals, assists, shots, etc). AHL players do not get the same level of scrutiny. Their stats are based solely on goals/assists/point production to games played.
I'm not sure what the argument on total points being a plus is supposed to mean. I have minor leaguers on my roster whose total points are also better than Barron's but those players aren't anywhere close to being NHLers or GHLers (Example from my roster - Wyatt Newpower - his 39-47 card is "technically" two total points better than Barron but who in this league would take his card over Barron's?)
The true value of the cards are the numbers associated with them. If you only look at offensive ratings then that’s a novel way of viewing them.
Moreover, the listing of Reedy's stamina as 4 and not 3 suggests to me that his NHL games were not taken into account at all. Looking at multiple rosters, it does appear as if 4 is the de facto stamina listing for minor leaguers, particularly those that made few or no NHL appearances last year. Reedy's avg TOI in the NHL does not line up with a 4 (which would line up with an average TOI range of 12:00 -14:30 based on my observations over the last few years). That's what leads me to ask my question, I am wondering if there is a certain amount of AHL games played that triggers a card that is AHL-based rather than NHL-based (while admitting I might be forgetting or making a bad assumption about the creation process).
Again, stamina is never combined or blended for guys that have both AHL and NHL cards. Fortitude is as it takes NHL GP and AHGP to determine how resistance to injury skaters are (fort). And as stated above, there is no set number of games it’s which stats produced the best (most points) card.
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Post by Jedediah-Hartford on Jul 19, 2022 13:39:15 GMT -5
I copied and pasted trying to answer each point. My responses in red below. The examples I gave had fairly comparable TOI stats: Blidh - 10:44 Barron - 9:48 Reedy - 11:11 Those aren't that much of a difference, they all fall within the ranges of a 3 stamina I track my players throughout the year on their production and TOI and make comparisons to past players to gauge my expectations on their potential card value as well as stamina expectations, using previous cards. This is more useful in tracking future OFF comp numbers than DEF comp, but since I started this my offensive estimates have lined up with the actual cards, Reedy's case excepted. If there are AHL and NHL stats for a player then when the cards are generated there will be a record generated for each. These records are compared to one another (the NHL ones can be nerfed based on NHL GP) and the better card is used. I do not use AHL TOI when calculating stamina for 2 reasons (1, I am not sure if I am collecting it/it is available and 2, even if I did collect it/it was available, because a guy plays 20 minutes a game in the minors does not mean that he should have the same playing in the Bigs) so guys whose AHL values were used get a set stamina rating.
Regardless of the amount of "total points" between OFF comp and DEF comp, the difference between an OFF comp of 45 and a 62 (or 71) is way more than the effect of what a difference of less than 90 seconds of average ice time would have on how much a player's offensive stats are truly worth. Offensive scores for NHL players are calculated based as I stipulated above (TOI compared to goals, assists, shots, etc). AHL players do not get the same level of scrutiny. Their stats are based solely on goals/assists/point production to games played.Taking those two replies combined, I take it that what I presumed to be Reedy's 45-45 AHL stats card was deemed "better" than the NHL stats card; would you be able to reveal what the other card would have been? I'm not sure what the argument on total points being a plus is supposed to mean. I have minor leaguers on my roster whose total points are also better than Barron's but those players aren't anywhere close to being NHLers or GHLers (Example from my roster - Wyatt Newpower - his 39-47 card is "technically" two total points better than Barron but who in this league would take his card over Barron's?) The true value of the cards are the numbers associated with them. If you only look at offensive ratings then that’s a novel way of viewing them.
I'm curious if all league owners share that view. As a forward, I would want Reedy to have a higher OFF comp rating at the expense of DEF comp points, and would consider a 60-20 card more useful to me than a 45-45 one, just as I would find a 25-95 card more useful than a 65-65 card for a defenseman.
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