|
Post by Eric-Baltimore on Jul 20, 2016 13:25:19 GMT -5
Boooooooooooo! Ok, I guess that does make more sense.
|
|
|
Post by Chris-Suffolk on Jul 20, 2016 14:30:15 GMT -5
I am all for tinkering however there needs to be some expectation level setting. The formula, no matter what it is will not be 100% fool proof. There will always be guys that are overpaid and guys that are underpaid in peoples minds. The goal is to have realistic asking prices give or take. Remember, the asking prices will be cut by at least 90%, if not 75%, for those players retained (which is usually the case). I will run this current iteration of the model for the full group of RFAs this year and we can see how things look. I know that you will always be willing to listen and look into concerns. I just knew something was a little off. Lindholm, whom I know is dreamy, was asking more than Tarasenko...was puzzling to me. No worries from Suffolk, as I know you would look into any concern of the league.
|
|
|
Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 20, 2016 14:55:38 GMT -5
Marincin asking 500k less than Trotman? Are we sure the correct emphasis is being put on main composite score. Seems like a lot of emphasis being put secondary composite score for a position. A 42-87 should be asking a lot more than a 53-74 with the same stamina. Marincin has better overall card and a 13 higher D rating which should be most important in calculating a D asking price in my opinion. Did the new formula shift emphasis for defensemen more toward D and forwards to offense? I'm not sure how anyone would argue Trotman is worth more than Marincin
|
|
|
Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 20, 2016 16:42:32 GMT -5
The only new guys listed were the 4 above. Trotman and the other guy haven't gone through the new process yet.
|
|
|
Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 20, 2016 18:22:38 GMT -5
New logic below: Please review and discuss lastfirst | pos | offcomp | defcomp | stam | askComp | Stone, Mark | RW | 87 | 54 | 7 | 7.8 | Toffoli, Tyler | RW | 91 | 61 | 6 | 7.7 | Tarasenko, Vladimir | RW | 98 | 45 | 6 | 7.4125 | Lindholm, Hampus | D | 61 | 89 | 8 | 7.1 | Huberdeau, Jonathan | LW | 89 | 40 | 6 | 6.05 | Smith, Reilly | RW/LW | 82 | 63 | 6 | 5.9 | Saad, Brandon | LW/RW | 88 | 42 | 6 | 5.875 | Vatanen, Sami | D | 71 | 87 | 7 | 5.8 | Schwartz, Jaden | LW/C | 87 | 46 | 6 | 5.725 | Gallagher, Brendan | RW | 93 | 54 | 5 | 5.425 | Ekholm, Mattias | D | 63 | 86 | 7 | 4.9 | Zibanejad, Mika | C | 82 | 45 | 6 | 4.7125 | Galchenyuk, Alex | C/LW | 90 | 39 | 5 | 4.5925 | Krug, Torey | D | 68 | 74 | 7 | 4.2 | Lovejoy, Ben | D | 47 | 95 | 6 | 4.125 | Mitchell, Willie | D | 48 | 81 | 7 | 3.8 | Coyle, Charlie | C/RW | 74 | 40 | 6 | 3.75 | Martinook, Jordan | LW/C | 64 | 61 | 5 | 3.7 | Silfverberg, Jakob | RW/LW | 75 | 61 | 5 | 3.6 | Granlund, Mikael | W/C | 72 | 43 | 6 | 3.5875 | Miller, J.T. | W/C | 80 | 37 | 5 | 3.5775 | Brodin, Jonas | D | 34 | 79 | 7 | 3.455 | Kreider, Chris | LW | 78 | 36 | 5 | 3.37 | Nelson, Brock | C/LW | 77 | 42 | 5 | 3.325 | Hamilton, Dougie | D | 70 | 62 | 7 | 3.2 | Pirri, Brandon | W/C | 76 | 27 | 5 | 3.1025 | Pageau, Jean-Gabriel | C | 72 | 55 | 5 | 3.05 | Prince, Shane | LW/C | 68 | 32 | 3 | 2.9625 | Dumoulin, Brian | D | 52 | 80 | 6 | 2.875 | Pearson, Tanner | LW/RW | 78 | 57 | 4 | 2.75 | Schultz, Justin | D | 59 | 66 | 6 | 2.55 | Marincin, Martin | D | 42 | 87 | 5 | 2.4475 | Sheahan, Riley | C/LW | 66 | 52 | 5 | 2.375 | Trotman, Zach | D | 53 | 74 | 6 | 2.2875 | Namestnikov, Vladislav | C/LW | 74 | 46 | 4 | 2.2125 | Baertschi, Sven | LW | 74 | 32 | 4 | 2.11 | Roussel, Antoine | LW | 72 | 51 | 4 | 2.0625 | Zucker, Jason | LW/RW | 63 | 40 | 5 | 1.9 | Petrovic, Alex | D | 59 | 78 | 5 | 1.8875 | Hayes, Jimmy | RW/LW | 72 | 25 | 4 | 1.865 | Grigorenko, Mikhail | W/C | 71 | 37 | 4 | 1.8475 | Yakupov, Nail | RW/LW | 70 | 31 | 4 | 1.8025 | Girgensons, Zemgus | W/C | 61 | 44 | 5 | 1.75 | Wilson, Scott | LW | 69 | 29 | 3 | 1.695 | Beaulieu, Nathan | D | 60 | 62 | 6 | 1.675 | Connauton, Kevin | D | 60 | 74 | 5 | 1.65 | Clune, Rich | LW/RW | 68 | 33 | 3 | 1.6175 | Brown, J.T. | LW/RW | 64 | 55 | 4 | 1.6125 | Larsson, Johan | C/W | 60 | 38 | 5 | 1.585 | Ellis, Morgan | D | 36 | 49 | 9 | 1.5625 | Halmo, Mike | RW | 40 | 33 | 9 | 1.55 | Pateryn, Greg | D | 54 | 70 | 5 | 1.5125 | Leduc, Jerome | D | 34 | 48 | 9 | 1.5 | Bitetto, Anthony | D | 61 | 47 | 4 | 1.45 | Jensen, Nicklas | RW/LW | 40 | 36 | 8 | 1.45 | Agozzino, Andrew | C/LW | 51 | 32 | 3 | 1.4375 | Flynn, Brian | W/C | 58 | 50 | 3 | 1.4375 | Reinhart, Maxwell | C/LW | 39 | 27 | 9 | 1.4025 | Bennett, Beau | RW/LW | 74 | 26 | 3 | 1.4 | Pysyk, Mark | D | 53 | 65 | 5 | 1.4 | Farnham, Bobby | LW/RW | 65 | 25 | 3 | 1.39 | Strait, Brian | D | 40 | 69 | 5 | 1.39 | Etem, Emerson | LW/RW | 63 | 30 | 4 | 1.3775 | Bartley, Victor | D | 32 | 70 | 4 | 1.3625 | Hrivik, Marek | LW/RW | 41 | 27 | 8 | 1.3625 | Nemeth, Patrik | D | 57 | 61 | 5 | 1.3625 | Morrow, Joe | D | 56 | 62 | 5 | 1.3625 | Chiasson, Alex | RW | 58 | 43 | 4 | 1.36 | Florek, Justin | LW | 31 | 35 | 9 | 1.35 | Randell, Tyler | RW | 80 | 32 | 2 | 1.34 | Szwarz, Jordan | RW | 37 | 44 | 6 | 1.3 | Clendening, Adam | D | 59 | 48 | 5 | 1.2725 | Mashinter, Brandon | LW | 61 | 20 | 2 | 1.26 | McIlrath, Dylan | D | 49 | 69 | 4 | 1.255 | Hamilton, Freddie | C/RW | 37 | 32 | 7 | 1.235 | Welsh, Jeremy | C/LW | 30 | 29 | 9 | 1.225 | Payerl, Adam | RW | 36 | 18 | 9 | 1.2125 | Shore, Drew | C/RW | 52 | 50 | 3 | 1.2125 | Andreoff, Andy | C/LW | 63 | 28 | 3 | 1.19 | Phillips, Zack | C | 33 | 42 | 5 | 1.1725 | Whitney, Joe | LW | 36 | 34 | 4 | 1.17 | Bulmer, Brett | RW/LW | 31 | 33 | 7 | 1.17 | Howden, Quinton | LW/RW | 62 | 27 | 3 | 1.17 | Grant, Derek | C/LW | 38 | 46 | 4 | 1.1675 | Jurco, Tomas | RW/LW | 60 | 27 | 3 | 1.1575 | Kostka, Michael | D | 36 | 54 | 5 | 1.1475 | Lashoff, Brian | D | 31 | 30 | 9 | 1.1475 | Oleksiak, Jamie | D | 46 | 56 | 4 | 1.1325 | Sgarbossa, Michael | C | 31 | 25 | 7 | 1.1025 | Chaput, Michael | C/LW | 39 | 43 | 3 | 1.0875 | Postma, Paul | D | 44 | 48 | 3 | 1.0725 | Sutter, Brody | RW/C | 34 | 37 | 3 | 1.0725 | Tennyson, Matt | D | 56 | 35 | 3 | 1.0725 | Klinkhammer, Rob | LW/RW | 47 | 30 | 3 | 1.0575 | McFarland, John | LW/RW | 33 | 23 | 6 | 1.0575 | Mouillierat, Kael | C/LW | 38 | 28 | 3 | 1.0425 | Cross, Tommy | D | 30 | 28 | 7 | 1.035 | Thomas, Christian | RW | 42 | 30 | 3 | 1.0275 | Tinordi, Jarred | D | 19 | 61 | 4 | 1.0225 | Fedun, Taylor | D | 34 | 56 | 3 | 0.9975 | Brown, Chris | C/RW | 47 | 21 | 2 | 0.9975 | Gormley, Brandon | D | 35 | 39 | 4 | 0.9825 | Black, Graham | C | 31 | 18 | 5 | 0.9675 | Bellemore, Brett | D | 22 | 32 | 6 | 0.9525 | Matteau, Stefan | LW/RW | 38 | 21 | 3 | 0.945 | Gragnani, Marc-Andre | D | 35 | 30 | 4 | 0.9375 | Heard, Mitchell | C | 28 | 28 | 2 | 0.93 | Beach, Cody | RW | 32 | 32 | 2 | 0.93 | Smith, Dalton | LW | 17 | 32 | 2 | 0.9225 | Comrie, Adam | D | 32 | 32 | 3 | 0.885 | Bournival, Michael | LW/RW | 28 | 28 | 1 | 0.885 | Gernat, Martin | D | 22 | 32 | 2 | 0.84 | Beaupre, Gabriel | D | 14 | 20 | 1 | 0.75 | Sauve, Yann | D | 20 | 20 | 1 | 0.75 | Wrenn, William | D | 14 | 20 | 1 | 0.7275 |
|
|
|
Post by Scott-New York on Jul 20, 2016 19:26:32 GMT -5
My first thought, honestly, is that now they are a bit too high. How are guys who have never had a card asking 1.3 million? My assumption is that the stamina for minor leaguers is still way above where it should be. How do we arrive at stamina for these players given that the AHL doesn't keep TOI stats? These either need to be nerfed down so that the Hrivik's aren't asking for that kind of money when they haven't even played yet. Back to the rest, the full time GHLers seem a bit high as well but at the same time, Tarasenko in averaging 7.5 AAV on his NHL contract.
|
|
|
Post by Scott-New York on Jul 20, 2016 19:33:39 GMT -5
And I also don't understand how we're going to manage closer to real life salaries without anywhere near a real life cap
|
|
|
Post by Chris-Alaska on Jul 20, 2016 19:36:19 GMT -5
For my 2 players (Tinordi and Prince)- Tinordi seems somewhat realistic (Making 1mil GHL and just signed a one year deal worth 700k nhl). Prince doesn't seem realistic to me tho (2.96mil GHL, just signed NHL contract for 2 year 850k per). Not that our prices will exactly reflect NHL but I think that's what we're aiming for here. Also, Prince's card isn't very good and never was. He's a 68-32 with 3 stam. Tanner Pearson is a 78-57 4 stam and costs less at 2.75m.
|
|
|
Post by Scott-New York on Jul 20, 2016 19:45:09 GMT -5
I'm suspecting that Prince may have gotten elevated because of his 9 stamina last year as I asked about above but Glenn can hopefully look into this, I remember us discussing this issue in the past.
|
|
|
Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 20, 2016 19:52:30 GMT -5
perhaps the minor league carded guys could be adjusted down but as stated before the salaries shown do not include the 90 or 75% savings that signing your RFA's provide.
|
|
|
Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 20, 2016 19:57:41 GMT -5
average NHL player has a ranking of 60. Prince has almost a 70 offense which is well above the average. The average NHLer (60/40) - (40/60)will grade out at 2.6M given the current pricing algorithm.
|
|
|
Post by Scott-New York on Jul 20, 2016 20:22:39 GMT -5
Average NHL player is 60? That seems a bit low to me as that's a border line playable card in my mind. Stamina's of 7,8 or even 9 for a lot of minor league cards? Was wondering if we just adjusted these if the asking prices would be more in line? I don't think we're far off on the top tier guys...
|
|
|
Post by Chris-Alaska on Jul 20, 2016 20:22:48 GMT -5
average NHL player has a ranking of 60. Prince has almost a 70 offense which is well above the average. The average NHLer (60/40) - (40/60)will grade out at 2.6M given the current pricing algorithm. Well if his offense is well above the average then his defense is well below. Actually 8 points both ways so would assume he'd be around 2.6m if that's the average NHLer (unless offense points are weighted heavier than defense points for offenseman). I definitely think the previous year stamina may play a role as Scott said. I did not notice that before. That may be the only thing that makes sense as to why Tanner Pearson has a better card and better stamina yet lower cost than Prince.
|
|
|
Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 20, 2016 21:00:13 GMT -5
average NHL player has a ranking of 60. Prince has almost a 70 offense which is well above the average. The average NHLer (60/40) - (40/60)will grade out at 2.6M given the current pricing algorithm. Average NHL player at 2.6 mil is kinda crazy which 60-40 card in GHL makes 2.6 a year in NHL
|
|
|
Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 20, 2016 21:06:47 GMT -5
average NHL player has a ranking of 60. Prince has almost a 70 offense which is well above the average. The average NHLer (60/40) - (40/60)will grade out at 2.6M given the current pricing algorithm. Average NHL player at 2.6 mil is kinda crazy which 60-40 card in GHL makes 2.6 a year in NHL Don't have time to go through all the teams but first 2 guys I saw around 2.6 in NHL were Richard Rakell and Brad Richardson 83-38 and 70-53 well above 60-40 average
|
|