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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 20, 2016 21:12:21 GMT -5
I was just coming up with a number that I thought was right for NHL salary average. I am usually pretty good approximated it. Just 2 mins ago I asked google what the average NHL players salary is and it replied 2.58M.
The reason guys with better cards have lower salaries is the stamina is factored in. A guy that has high stamina, and trhus can contribute at a high level on the ice commands more money.
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Jul 20, 2016 21:27:54 GMT -5
I think a 60-40 guy in the GHL is ranging out to be a 4th line guy. Some may see the 3rd line on thinner teams.
90 + = 1st Line $4.0-10.0 Mil 90-80 = 2nd Line $3.0-6.0 80-70 = 3rd Line $2.0-3.5 50-70 = 4th Line $500-2.0
I don't know where some of these agents are getting their asking prices.
Lindholm, Hampus D----61----89----8----$7.1 Huberdeau, Jonathan LW---89----40----6----$6.05 Miller, J.T. W/C---80----37----5----$3.5775
Zdeno Chara D----61----90----8----$4.87
I think part of the problem is, these asking prices are based on this past season's NHL stats. But, our players are a year behind. Many of the GHL players have not realized their potential. In other words, take Hampus Lindholm. He didnt play PK last season, nor did he have 1st line minutes on PP or even strength. Therefore, this past GHL season, his card reflected 2014-2015 NHL stats. But, theres a two year flip/gain because suddenly he is an RFA and now I have to pay 2016-2017 prices based on the 2015-2016 NHL season, and he hasn't been able to perform those type services yet. SO, we're paying for for something that hasn't happened yet. Thats where the problem lies.
I think the asking prices should be based on their GHL performances, not the NHL performances. If and when the contract runs out, then you will have to pay the piper. But, not before.
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Jul 20, 2016 21:34:19 GMT -5
Of course, if someone see's the potential of a players greatness, then you should base your contract terms on that potential. Our "asking prices" are as if the player and agent somehow discovered a crystal ball and were able to see the future stats of a player, and as GM's we were being forced to pony up before the player achieved lofty goals.
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Post by Scott-New York on Jul 20, 2016 23:11:19 GMT -5
I was just coming up with a number that I thought was right for NHL salary average. I am usually pretty good approximated it. Just 2 mins ago I asked google what the average NHL players salary is and it replied 2.58M. The reason guys with better cards have lower salaries is the stamina is factored in. A guy that has high stamina, and trhus can contribute at a high level on the ice commands more money. Hence why I think these AHL carded players are asking more than they are worth because they have high stamina's.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 21, 2016 7:30:38 GMT -5
I was just coming up with a number that I thought was right for NHL salary average. I am usually pretty good approximated it. Just 2 mins ago I asked google what the average NHL players salary is and it replied 2.58M. The reason guys with better cards have lower salaries is the stamina is factored in. A guy that has high stamina, and trhus can contribute at a high level on the ice commands more money. Were AHL cards used in determining that 40-60 as the average. Just sorting defenseman (easier to see)we have about 240ish D that are above a 60 D rating or 8 per NHL team. The average NHL D card should be well above a 60 D if we only used players with NHL cards.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 21, 2016 7:41:25 GMT -5
No. The average is really based on the sum of both numbers. An average F might be more like O(70-75) D(30-25) and the average D man just the opposite D(70-75) O(30-25). Now the chart that I arrived at was using the actual number of 60 but it might be better to use the 70-75ish number instead. I think making this adjustment, which will lower the prices somewhat across the board (especially for the middle of the road guys) in conjunction with modifying the AHL carded players stamina very well might do the trick.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 21, 2016 8:19:48 GMT -5
No. The average is really based on the sum of both numbers. An average F might be more like O(70-75) D(30-25) and the average D man just the opposite D(70-75) O(30-25). Now the chart that I arrived at was using the actual number of 60 but it might be better to use the 70-75ish number instead. I think making this adjustment, which will lower the prices somewhat across the board (especially for the middle of the road guys) in conjunction with modifying the AHL carded players stamina very well might do the trick. would it shift the emphasis more to O for forwards asking price and more toward D rating for defenseman? Any type of offensive D card seems to be asking more(Justin Schultz 59-66)than a comparable stamina D with better overall card just shifted more towards the D side (Zach Trotman 53-74)
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 21, 2016 8:24:36 GMT -5
I just checked the table I created yesterday and I was using a 70-30 as the basis for an average player. This means that for a 70-30 guy his asking price would be about 2.5M which is average. That means that the model looks solid from that standpoint and the only thing that will get modified for the next review is the stamina for minor league players.
It handles both off and def separately so there is no weighting of one over the other. The better they are in each category, the more they will be asking.
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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Jul 21, 2016 8:36:57 GMT -5
I just checked the table I created yesterday and I was using a 70-30 as the basis for an average player. This means that for a 70-30 guy his asking price would be about 2.5M which is average. That means that the model looks solid from that standpoint and the only thing that will get modified for the next review is the stamina for minor league players. It handles both off and def separately so there is no weighting of one over the other. The better they are in each category, the more they will be asking. Should we add any weighting? According to that wouldn't a 60-60 D be asking more than a 30-85. One would be on almost all 3rd pairings in the league the other wouldn't play on majority of teams. Also still confused on Schultz and Trotman, are previous cards being used for them? Trotman better overall and defensively with same stamina but asking less.
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Post by Chris-Alaska on Jul 21, 2016 8:44:11 GMT -5
I just checked the table I created yesterday and I was using a 70-30 as the basis for an average player. This means that for a 70-30 guy his asking price would be about 2.5M which is average. That means that the model looks solid from that standpoint and the only thing that will get modified for the next review is the stamina for minor league players. It handles both off and def separately so there is no weighting of one over the other. The better they are in each category, the more they will be asking. What is the average stamina to put this all into perspective? Using 70-30 and 2.5m as the average for that card, I can see Prince being at average of 2.5m. However, being at 3m, I'm expecting to see a significant drop in his cost after the stamina is altered for minor leaguers.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 21, 2016 8:45:36 GMT -5
Weighting is added based on stamina.
Also, the table is weighted so that the higher the score goes the more each additional point garners you in asking price. Here are some breakpoints to give you an idea:
50 .725M 60 1M 70 2M 80 3M 90 4M 100 6M 110 7M
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Post by Chris-Alaska on Jul 21, 2016 8:47:17 GMT -5
I just checked the table I created yesterday and I was using a 70-30 as the basis for an average player. This means that for a 70-30 guy his asking price would be about 2.5M which is average. That means that the model looks solid from that standpoint and the only thing that will get modified for the next review is the stamina for minor league players. It handles both off and def separately so there is no weighting of one over the other. The better they are in each category, the more they will be asking. Should we add any weighting? According to that wouldn't a 60-60 D be asking more than a 30-85. One would be on almost all 3rd pairings in the league the other wouldn't play on majority of teams. Also still confused on Schultz and Trotman, are previous cards being used for them? Trotman better overall and defensively with same stamina but asking less. Don't have time to look into this right now but did trotman have a minor league card with same stamina? Sounds very similar to Prince vs Pearson.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 21, 2016 8:48:33 GMT -5
I just checked the table I created yesterday and I was using a 70-30 as the basis for an average player. This means that for a 70-30 guy his asking price would be about 2.5M which is average. That means that the model looks solid from that standpoint and the only thing that will get modified for the next review is the stamina for minor league players. It handles both off and def separately so there is no weighting of one over the other. The better they are in each category, the more they will be asking. What is the average stamina to put this all into perspective? Using 70-30 and 2.5m as the average for that card, I can see Prince being at average of 2.5m. However, being at 3m, I'm expecting to see a significant drop in his cost after the stamina is altered for minor leaguers. D stamina is calculated like this (3+stam)/10. So a D man with a stamina of 7 has a factor of 1.0 that is applied to the off and def score before being compared to the chart. A d man who has a stamina of 9 has a 1.2 factor. F stamina is similar but is based on (5+stam)/10. This is because as there are 12 forwards, they generally have lower stamina than do defenders.
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Jul 21, 2016 9:14:47 GMT -5
I'm not liking...and I don't have a solution just yet.
But again, taking Hampus Lindholm as my example.
His asking price of 7.1 is really elite status. Along the lines of established vets who constantly had outstanding numbers. But he is skipping a middle contract ( bridge ) where he went from ELC to elite monies. Kind of hard to see it. His card is good, certainly not 7.1 material though.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jul 21, 2016 9:20:36 GMT -5
So does 5.25M sound more realistic? Because that is what you could get him for with a 75 percent discount for drafted players coming off of ELC
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