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Post by Brian-Cleveland on Jun 2, 2013 1:00:47 GMT -5
I think I need a refresher. Mike Smith was a +1 prior to his last game against the Boston Bears. He was a +1 for the prior 2 games as well. After that win he will have a 9 day layoff until his next game against Thunder Bay. In the preview it says that he will only be even. How hasn't he recovered after 9 days off? I'm not saying that this is something that should be fixed now.........but I believe the goalie stamina and recovery is something that should be looked at for next year.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jun 2, 2013 6:45:14 GMT -5
I think I need a refresher. Mike Smith was a +1 prior to his last game against the Boston Bears. He was a +1 for the prior 2 games as well. After that win he will have a 9 day layoff until his next game against Thunder Bay. In the preview it says that he will only be even. How hasn't he recovered after 9 days off? I'm not saying that this is something that should be fixed now.........but I believe the goalie stamina and recovery is something that should be looked at for next year. This is due to the fact that the stamina rating is a hybrid which is also used so backup goalies (usually with good stats) are not over played. One of the factors that feed into the stamina status from game to game is consecutive starts. This is irregardless of number of days in between starts. Remember that Green means he is still good to go he does not have the possibility of getting a slight stat boost that the Blue "Fresh" rating brings. |
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Jun 2, 2013 7:44:26 GMT -5
I rested Clemmonson HUGE down the stretch.. 4-07-2013 3-26-2013 3-21-2013 3-18-2013 3-12-2013 3-03-2013 Only 5 games in the whole month of March ! And he was Never Blue at any time. I know Chris F's big argument is a back up goalie should never supplant a starter but then how to Goalies get to be starters ? Both Clemmonson and Budja were actual starters a couple times each during their careers and could do so again. The argument is going to over money - how come my 8 million $$ tender is not much better than your 1.5  I think it needs a hard look. |
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jun 2, 2013 7:59:58 GMT -5
I rested Clemmonson HUGE down the stretch.. 4-07-2013 3-26-2013 3-21-2013 3-18-2013 3-12-2013 3-03-2013 Only 5 games in the whole month of March ! And he was Never Blue at any time. I know Chris F's big argument is a back up goalie should never supplant a starter but then how to Goalies get to be starters ? Both Clemmonson and Budja were actual starters a couple times each during their careers and could do so again. The argument is going to over money - how come my 8 million $$ tender is not much better than your 1.5 I think it needs a hard look. They get starter stamina rating based upon them being starters the previous year in the NHL. That is how all of our card are based, how they did last year whether that be stats or GP wise. |
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Post by Scott-New Jersey on Jun 2, 2013 9:28:01 GMT -5
I also think this needs to be looked at. Lundqvist had plenty of rest going into the playoffs and and between the 1st and 2nd round but still turned went below even. He has a 9 stam should have had enough rest to stay even.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jun 2, 2013 9:37:51 GMT -5
Again. Their status is not just how rested they are. It is based on the number of consecutive games they played as well as per my previous post.
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Jun 2, 2013 10:06:11 GMT -5
I think for the future, next season, we should amend the goalies to recover on a per round basis as well as consecutive starts mode. As it is in the NHL, starting goalies usually ride the wave to completion with backups only getting an appearance if that starter falters beyond pale or when the team is getting blown out and it is a good op to get that starter some rest for the next game.
just a thought, maybe we can have a goalie mode for the regular season, and one for the playoffs?
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jun 2, 2013 10:34:42 GMT -5
I think for the future, next season, we should amend the goalies to recover on a per round basis as well as consecutive starts mode. As it is in the NHL, starting goalies usually ride the wave to completion with backups only getting an appearance if that starter falters beyond pale or when the team is getting blown out and it is a good op to get that starter some rest for the next game. just a thought, maybe we can have a goalie mode for the regular season, and one for the playoffs? The only drawback with that is you can have a backup goalie with awesome stats lead a team to a championship in the playoffs. That is why we use Stamina ratings to keep these guys from being over used based on how they were used in the NHL. |
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Jun 2, 2013 10:55:13 GMT -5
I think for the future, next season, we should amend the goalies to recover on a per round basis as well as consecutive starts mode. As it is in the NHL, starting goalies usually ride the wave to completion with backups only getting an appearance if that starter falters beyond pale or when the team is getting blown out and it is a good op to get that starter some rest for the next game. just a thought, maybe we can have a goalie mode for the regular season, and one for the playoffs? The only drawback with that is you can have a backup goalie with awesome stats lead a team to a championship in the playoffs. That is why we use Stamina ratings to keep these guys from being over used based on how they were used in the NHL. I totally understand what you're saying...but the majority of NHL/FHL teams have starters/want their starters to be the one that takes them to the promise land. It is their choice to make if it is possible. Contrary, if that starter doesn't have the stamina to go that distance, so be it, but I think we can do some adjustment for playoff teams, especially when they have rest between rounds... I know I have been a strong opponent against overuse of goalies in the past...but for Regular season use is my concern. Playoff bound teams usually gain in many areas ( morale boosts especially ) just because of sheer excitement. For sure, goalies gain some sort of extra boost in the "second season" too. Coincidently, if goalies are nerfed down for playing too many games above their previous years stats...why do we allow skaters to play more games than their previous years stats without being nerfed down? That was my issue the very first season. I argued this very point. It brings to light, guys with super duper stats/FHL cards that only played half an NHL season and have these super cards. These type players play on NHL 3rd or 4th lines but because of the stats per game, are FHL 1st liners. The only nerfing for them is Stamina. I know you have a formula which corrected this issue to an extent, but I think skaters have a little more leeway than the goalies do. Dont get me wrong....Starters are Starters, Back Ups are Back Ups. I dont want to see ANY back ups be FHL starters because of Potential to be starters, or WERE starters at one time in their careers or because of an injury they had to be over used. IF their stats are starter stats in an NHL year, then the following FHL season they will be FHL starters. I agree with you on that!!!! |
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Post by Scott-New Jersey on Jun 2, 2013 11:07:00 GMT -5
Im just trying to say it need to be looked at.. I cant rap my brain around how a goalie can go in to a back to back even play the 1st sit the 2nd and have a +1 for the next game or be a -1 sit a game and be a +1 for the next game.. and the same guy can be even going into the all star week have a week off and start the 1st game back even..
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Post by Brian-Cleveland on Jun 2, 2013 22:32:17 GMT -5
My qualm has to do with how goalies recover. Again, I'll use my example because I think it's very representative of a significant flaw in the system. Mike Smith's card will never be confused with a backup goalie. He has a 10 in both stamina and fortitude. He's played 14 of 16 playoff games. Round 1 he played all 6 games. In Rounds 2 and 3 and he played 4 out of 5 games in each series. Last game he was +1 and now he is even. Hypothetically, if if there was a 6th game in the last round, and I played Emery, then Smith would now be +1 (that's what has happened in the past). Instead, I win the series in 5 games and will have 9 days off. Basically, I'm penalized for playing him and ending the series early.
Now I'll use Jonathan Quick as the other example. Sam/Sal has done a good job of resting him and he is being rewarded because he's at +1 (where he should be). And I'll admit, Smith has played more consecutive games than Quick has. Again, that is good on Sam/Sal's part. Quick has played 14 out of the 18 Thunder Bay games. Smith has played in 14 out of the 16 Cleveland games. I think there should be some sort of reward for ending a series early and it should be seen in the goalie's stamina. If I started Emery two more games then my team would be better off even if we lost those games. How does that make sense?
I do understand the idea of preventing backup goalies from playing every game. I agree with that. But how can a goalie with a 10 stamina be even after playing only 14 games between April 17 and June 4? 16 games if you want to go back to April 1.
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Post by Brian-Cleveland on Jun 2, 2013 22:39:50 GMT -5
I also want to make one more point. I'm not crying woe is me. I understood the engine and how resting a goalie would work. I know that sitting a goalie one game restores his stamina while having a week off without any games doesn't matter. I just think that my situation is reflective on a broader problem and it is a timely example to give. Based on other comments, I'm not alone on this matter. It's not something I want changed today, but is something that should be looked into and debated for future seasons.
I hope I'm not coming across as bitchy. I want to help make the sim as realistic as possible. Glenn has done a hell of job and God knows how many hours he's put into his baby. Whether this is something that gets tweaked or not doesn't ruin my experience and I'm here for the long haul. Win or lose I'm going to congratulate Sam/Sal on a successful season and will be proud of my boys. Let's Go Barons!
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Post by Scott-New York on Jun 3, 2013 0:23:59 GMT -5
Excellent points Brian and I agree with this post 100%. It would seem that maybe only a slight tweak is needed and I'm not sure exactly where but a goalie who gets rested for a game recovers much quicker than one who gets a number of rest days so it would appear that maybe too much emphasis is being put on consecutive days played. I don't feel that the system in place is way out of whack but I do think that something is slightly askew and maybe a tweak here or there is in order.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Jun 3, 2013 6:05:03 GMT -5
I am all for refining this process if we are able to make it more realistic while still maintaining it as a tool to keep backup goalies from getting over used.
Also, I think a sense of perspective is needed when looking at goalie status. Even (green) means he is operating at 100%. Blue (+1) means he could be operating at slightly above 100%. Goalies are not negatively impacted until they are -1. The +1 status is a bonus that goalies that are horses receive for being full time starters.
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Post by Brian-Cleveland on Jun 3, 2013 8:29:55 GMT -5
I am all for refining this process if we are able to make it more realistic while still maintaining it as a tool to keep backup goalies from getting over used. Also, I think a sense of perspective is needed when looking at goalie status. Even (green) means he is operating at 100%. Blue (+1) means he could be operating at slightly above 100%. Goalies are not negatively impacted until they are -1. The +1 status is a bonus that goalies that are horses receive for being full time starters. That is why I brought it up in the first place. Smith has a 10 in fortitude and stamina. If anybody classifies as a workhorse it's him. |
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