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Post by Dane-Hamilton on Aug 14, 2023 10:27:35 GMT -5
Suffolk Retain: Jesper Sellgren Matt Filipe Will Not Retain: Andrei Altybarmakian Lynden McCallum Nelson Nogier Juuso Rikola Don't think you have the option of retaining minor leaguers with no cards. Pretty sure they need a pro contract to retain for injury or overseas. |
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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 14, 2023 10:34:16 GMT -5
Suffolk Retain: Jesper Sellgren Matt Filipe Will Not Retain: Andrei Altybarmakian Lynden McCallum Nelson Nogier Juuso Rikola Don't think you have the option of retaining minor leaguers with no cards. Pretty sure they need a pro contract to retain for injury or overseas. Correct. That is the inherit danger of the minor league contract. You do not have rights to these players if they do not have a card. |
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 14, 2023 13:48:14 GMT -5
According to the Rule Book, there isn't a clear ruling on the matter of 100K players. I mean, technically, 100K contract is a "contract." So, if that is the case, I have the capability of retaining both of these players for 100K ( or a raise to 150K ).
According to the Rule Book, A Player who was INJURED ALL YEAR (Matt Felipe) or Played ENTIRE SEASON OVERSEAS (Jesper Sellgren) Can be retained for 100K.
I don't see where it says a 100K player cannot be retained. Maybe I/we are just confusing words...Am I able to "re-sign" each of them for 150K?
SEE BELOW
Players Under Contract but Without Cards
You as a GM are obligated to pay the contract of any player who is under contract for your team until their contract term runs out, they are bought out as per your one buyout allowance per year (with penalty) or they fall into a select grouping below.
Here are the reasons that guys have no cards and what can be done with each type of player.
Player decides to play in Europe and doesn't have a card. You have the option of either terminating this contract for free or retaining his rights for 100k. (Think Kovalchuk)
Player was injured all year (I mean, all year) and doesn't have a card. You have the option of either terminating this contract for free or retaining his rights for 100k. (Think Willie Mitchell this past year)
Player returns to juniors and is on a pro contract (500k plus). You can retain his rights for 100k or drop without penalty.
Player return to juniors or plays significant time in the minors and was drafted (meaning he is a prospect). One year gets added to his contract term and his salary is deferred until he starts hitting your books. This is the case until the skater plays 20 NHL games in one season or 10 games if the player is a goalie.
Player is an old geezer and retires or no one signs him or he is stuck playing in the ECHL or the Quebec Goon league. You must pay the man or use your one compliance buyout (as stated above with penalty) to rid his contract. Another option would be to trade him along with another asset to a GM who doesn't have a player that he needs to buy out to have him buy the player out for you.
If a player was forced to retire due to death or a medical condition or injury that prevents them from playing the GM can petition the league to drop this player for free. The League advisory group will make a decision based on the merits on a case by case basis.
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Post by Phil-Cornwall on Aug 14, 2023 13:59:52 GMT -5
Contract = under 500K
"Pro" Contract = 500K and above
I always thought it was an odd and ambiguous worded clause as well.
The Iconic example of this odd rule stipulation was Quebec losing out on none other than Brad marchand!
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Post by Brenden-Oregon on Aug 14, 2023 14:01:01 GMT -5
I don't see where it says a 100K player cannot be retained. Maybe I/we are just confusing words...Am I able to "re-sign" each of them for 150K? I'd say no since, as an example, Cincinnati doesn't have the option to resign Couturier since his contract ended and he doesn't have a card for this upcoming season. Minor league contracts are effectively one year contracts. It would be in the same boat as Couturier. |
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 14, 2023 16:03:57 GMT -5
Whatever the case is, I will see it when the UFA contract portion of this off season comes along.
Usually, all of our 100K players are eligible for retainment via a 50% raise. That's why I assume they would be available for a 150K contract. But, not a big deal. They aren't superstars in the making...but I do like them.
In the case of Matt Felipe, he was injured during training camp and did not play in AHL or NHL. But, he didn't make it back from his injury in time to make 3 ECHL games.
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Aug 21, 2023 21:00:40 GMT -5
Guys on minor league contracts, if they have a card the following year, can be retained by giving them a 50% raise. The danger of keeping talented guys on a minor league contract is if he doesn't play any games in season (in Europe or injured all year) you lose this right to resign him. Once his raise would amount to a minimum pro contract or more, you would need to resign them to a pro contract if they met the requirements listed above.
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 22, 2023 10:29:07 GMT -5
Guys on minor league contracts, if they have a card the following year, can be retained by giving them a 50% raise. The danger of keeping talented guys on a minor league contract is if he doesn't play any games in season (in Europe or injured all year) you lose this right to resign him. Once his raise would amount to a minimum pro contract or more, you would need to resign them to a pro contract if they met the requirements listed above. The first part (highlighted) is easily understood. The second part is confusing. It sounds like it's the GM's decision whether or not it is "dangerous" to resign players on minor league contracts. In the case of Sjellgren, he played the entire year in Europe. I'm assuming he is not available to be resigned?
In the case of Felipe, he missed ALMOST the entire year..He played 3 ECHL games. Technically, he DID play...3 games, but still played. Just like a pro who got injured, his stats are/would be available, but Fortitude would be a 1. |
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Post by Brian-Cleveland on Aug 22, 2023 11:52:19 GMT -5
Guys on minor league contracts, if they have a card the following year, can be retained by giving them a 50% raise. The danger of keeping talented guys on a minor league contract is if he doesn't play any games in season (in Europe or injured all year) you lose this right to resign him. Once his raise would amount to a minimum pro contract or more, you would need to resign them to a pro contract if they met the requirements listed above. The first part (highlighted) is easily understood. The second part is confusing. It sounds like it's the GM's decision whether or not it is "dangerous" to resign players on minor league contracts. In the case of Sjellgren, he played the entire year in Europe. I'm assuming he is not available to be resigned?
In the case of Felipe, he missed ALMOST the entire year..He played 3 ECHL games. Technically, he DID play...3 games, but still played. Just like a pro who got injured, his stats are/would be available, but Fortitude would be a 1. Unfortunately ECHL stats don’t count and he doesn’t have a card. It’s the equivalent of playing in juniors or Europe. I lost Jack Thompson and Rory Kerins last offseason because they only playing in juniors and I had them on minor league deals. |
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Post by Glenn-Philadelphia on Aug 22, 2023 14:18:51 GMT -5
It relates to having a card for the players on the minor league deals. Most likely they don't have a card because they were injured all year or were playing overseas but it could be for other reason as you point out (ECHL, college, etc.). This also could be because they weren't on AHL teams roster when I scrape the sites for AHL stats. This precluded a few cards being created for guys that GMs were asking about once the draft started.
I originally signed Palat to a minor league deal. Probably the best part of having these guys is having a GM contact you and casually ask about their availability as perhaps a throw in...
Good times in the G
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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 22, 2023 14:55:34 GMT -5
Guys on minor league contracts, if they have a card the following year, can be retained by giving them a 50% raise. The danger of keeping talented guys on a minor league contract is if he doesn't play any games in season (in Europe or injured all year) you lose this right to resign him. Once his raise would amount to a minimum pro contract or more, you would need to resign them to a pro contract if they met the requirements listed above. The first part (highlighted) is easily understood. The second part is confusing. It sounds like it's the GM's decision whether or not it is "dangerous" to resign players on minor league contracts. In the case of Sjellgren, he played the entire year in Europe. I'm assuming he is not available to be resigned?
In the case of Felipe, he missed ALMOST the entire year..He played 3 ECHL games. Technically, he DID play...3 games, but still played. Just like a pro who got injured, his stats are/would be available, but Fortitude would be a 1. It is the GM's decision and this is the very reason it is dangerous to leave players on minor league deals. If they do not have a card for ANY reason, they are not eligible to be retained. It has always been this way. Now, in Chris's defense, I do not see this in the rule book, although the options to retain or release are only listed under contracted players, which does not include minor league deals. I also do not see in the rule book where it states that once a player on a minor league deal plays one game in the GHL, he must be signed to a pro contract. I also know this to be the case. I would have to pull out the revamped rule book that Mike and I did many years back but I believe we did include both of these instances in that document, which unfortunately never made it to publication, because the two of us dropped many hours into that project. |
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 22, 2023 15:13:06 GMT -5
The first part (highlighted) is easily understood. The second part is confusing. It sounds like it's the GM's decision whether or not it is "dangerous" to resign players on minor league contracts. In the case of Sjellgren, he played the entire year in Europe. I'm assuming he is not available to be resigned?
In the case of Felipe, he missed ALMOST the entire year..He played 3 ECHL games. Technically, he DID play...3 games, but still played. Just like a pro who got injured, his stats are/would be available, but Fortitude would be a 1. It is the GM's decision and this is the very reason it is dangerous to leave players on minor league deals. If they do not have a card for ANY reason, they are not eligible to be retained. It has always been this way. Now, in Chris's defense, I do not see this in the rule book, although the options to retain or release are only listed under contracted players, which does not include minor league deals. I also do not see in the rule book where it states that once a player on a minor league deal plays one game in the GHL, he must be signed to a pro contract. I also know this to be the case. I would have to pull out the revamped rule book that Mike and I did many years back but I believe we did include both of these instances in that document, which unfortunately never made it to publication, because the two of us dropped many hours into that project. Yahtzeeeeeeee!!! Not in the Rule Book! |
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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 22, 2023 15:27:08 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it IS the way it has always been handled regardless and the G cannot allow teams retain players in this way when others, including myself, have lost talented players by this means.
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Post by Chris-Suffolk on Aug 23, 2023 13:29:38 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it IS the way it has always been handled regardless and the G cannot allow teams retain players in this way when others, including myself, have lost talented players by this means. I don't agree with the concept of "IF we are doing something wrong, we must continue to do it wrong just because we have always done it wrong." IF, we find we are doing things wrong, we need to correct it. You are in the "correctional" business, aren't you!?  Personally, it doesn't conflict with the rules. The Rules are vague in many areas, but we keep just rolling forward. It's sometimes mind boggling. We have all of this down time and yet we still don't implement needed changes. With all of the intelligent individuals in this league, it pains me to see how things just keep getting pushed off. But, it's a game inside of a game. |
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Post by Scott-New York on Aug 23, 2023 14:21:37 GMT -5
Other than it not being in the rule book, we're not doing it wrong. If/when it is added to the rule book, you will not have an option to keep these players, that would not change.
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